Tennis

[pugdog]

So far looks like the ITF are abiding by her wishes

Yes indeed! That's the only way to treat a lady.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

It was said that Murray was too fragile and prone to injury to make it big time, so he went away and got muscled up. Obviously he achieved the latter through lots of gym work!

Murray is definitely on some stuff.

He has repeatedly criticized the laughably easy to circumvent testing in tennis, something which would be ludicrous for a clean athlete especially as he's consistently been Nadal's whipping boy.

I get the impression though his doping is less sophisticated than Nadal or Djokovic's. It comes across like he's using anabolic's which haven't really increased his power that much and his movement is still sluggish.

I think Federer is natural though, no drug would help you become that good of a shot maker.

 

[luckyboy]

So James Blake just said..

"I'm sure there are guys who are doing it, getting away with it, and getting ahead of the testers,"
"It's unfortunate, but I hope tennis is doing the best job of trying to catch those guys trying to beat the system."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/drug-cheats-tennis-says-blake-010406822--ten.html

Expect the ire of Andy 'omerta' Murray to come your way James!


Also spewed some typical crap about Lance..

"Cycling has seen what seems to be like the steroid era in baseball where it seems like everyone is clouded (with suspicion)," said Blake.
"You don't know (but) like he said, he's passed like 500, 600 tests.
"But have no idea. I don't know Lance at all. Never met him. I don't know what he's like.
"I know his story is inspirational. I know how many people he's helped. That's incredible."

 

[sniper]

So James Blake just said..


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/drug-cheats-tennis-says-blake-010406822--ten.html

Expect the ire of Andy 'omerta' Murray to come your way James!


Also spewed some typical crap about Lance..

BLAKE: "It's unfortunate, but I hope tennis is doing the best job of trying to catch those guys trying to beat the system."

i guess this statement is as good as it gets from any pro tennis player.
Still a few questionmarks.

first, what "system"?
Blake knows as well as we do that the ATP is a joke in terms of anti-doping. Why doesn't he ask for bloodtesting or more preseason testing?

and who are "those guys trying to beat the system"? Like the armada of Americans who chose to skip the London Games, where the testing was going to be as stringent as never before?

Guys like Blake only travel to Europe sporadically and have mostly American tournaments on their palmares. Especially Mardy Fish's non-European schedule is dodgy. I might be reading too much into that, but it's noteworthy nonetheless.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Sa MAN tha Stosur interviewed today after her win - the voice is becoming hard to disguise - its as deep as Del Potro's.

 

[Red Rick]

Mariano Puerta, RG finalist in 05 was caught for nandrolone once, he got the full two years

 

[sniper]

Mariano Puerta, RG finalist in 05 was caught for nandrolone once, he got the full two years

good spot.
here it says he got no less than eight years for a first offence! that's rough.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/4549544.stm

 

[Briant_Gumble]

good spot.
here it says he got no less than eight years for a first offence! that's rough.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/4549544.stm

I hate to see an anti-doping agency really make an example out of one guy and ruin his life to make it look like their doing a good job. Personally I don't think stimulants are as sinister as other performance enhances either.

 

[sniper]

I hate to see an anti-doping agency really make an example out of one guy and ruin his life to make it look like their doing a good job. Personally I don't think stimulants are as sinister as other performance enhances either.

+10
ATP/ITF are a joke.
As corrupt as the UCI no doubt, though probably not as stupid.

 

[Bicycle]

Tennis certainly likes to pat itself on the back about how "clean" it is. Here's Roddick the other day:

You know, ours is probably better than any other sport, you know, as far as what we have to be accountable for. We've had a couple guys get suspensions in this sport for stuff that every person buys at GNC or buys at Walgreens. You know, Sudafed. So it's pretty intense.

When you haven't got a serious testing programme you're not going to catch dopers. Simple as that.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

The ITF sure are serious about anti-doping.

@bgtennisnation @smnb ITF numbers public. In 2011, Serena had between 1-3 in-competition tests, zero out of comp. See http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_62235_original.PDF …

ITF doping controls on Serena Williams for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Venus Williams for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Venus Williams for 2011: between 1-3 in-comp; zero out-of-comp http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_62235_original.PDF … #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Na Li for 2011: between 4-6 in-comp; zero out-of-comp http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_62235_original.PDF … #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Andy Murray for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Andy Roddick for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

 

[sniper]

The ITF sure are serious about anti-doping.

@bgtennisnation @smnb ITF numbers public. In 2011, Serena had between 1-3 in-competition tests, zero out of comp. See http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_62235_original.PDF …

ITF doping controls on Serena Williams for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Venus Williams for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Venus Williams for 2011: between 1-3 in-comp; zero out-of-comp http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_62235_original.PDF … #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Na Li for 2011: between 4-6 in-comp; zero out-of-comp http://www.itftennis.com/shared/medialibrary/pdf/original/IO_62235_original.PDF … #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Andy Murray for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

ITF doping controls on Andy Roddick for 2010: 7+ in-comp; zero out-of-comp #tennis #usopen

goodness me.
and didn't Murray complain recently about the anti-doping testing being too stringent?

I also noted (former?) Del Moral customers Errani and Ferrer are still seriously rocking the place. Inexhaustable, both simply outrunning their opponents. Both really pumped up types, displaying new levels of fitness, almost freaky (especially ferrer).

 

[rickibobbi]

yes, Korda was nabbed

a few others were suspected, now Ferrer and Nadal look a bit too .... something, as does Stosur (have you seen her muscle definition?!). Compare Tipsaravic and Ferrer, both about the same ranking on the world tour, both about hte same height, but very very different upper body muscle development.

 

[Reacher]

the picture for tennis is a bit similar to that of football.

typically, the type of doping stories that arouse some public and media interest involve recreational stuff like marihuana (Caprtiati) and cocaine (Gasquet).

All the stuff they don't like to tell the doctors. Don't forget those hair growth things

 

[Briant_Gumble]

goodness me.
and didn't Murray complain recently about the anti-doping testing being too stringent?

I also noted (former?) Del Moral customers Errani and Ferrer are still seriously rocking the place. Inexhaustable, both simply outrunning their opponents. Both really pumped up types, displaying new levels of fitness, almost freaky (especially ferrer).

Murray complains about the testing as being invasive and trashes it every chance he gets. Here is one article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...d-Rafael-Nadal-slam-anti-doping-protocol.html

Based off it I have to think he's either incredibly, incredibly naive or doped up (probably on a programme that would be used by 1970's bodybuilder's more than a serious sporting doping programme).

I think Nadal is the Lance of tennis probably "two years ahead of everyone else" like Hamilton said of Lance.

 

[Bicycle]

I think Nadal is the Lance of tennis probably "two years ahead of everyone else" like Hamilton said of Lance.

Yes untouchable too - will never test positive that we hear about.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Yes untouchable too - will never test positive that we hear about.

Yeah there's only really anecdotal evidence to suggest he's a user. I think l'equipe could get something on him, he's really hated in France at least with US postal service they ran stories about following workers dropping syringes miles away from the hotel.

Tennis is much more of an individual sport than cycling so it's unlikely someone in his entourage would come forward, the only way they could get him is if they connected him to a Doctor like Del Moral who spilled the beans.

 

[peterh]

Yes untouchable too - will never test positive that we hear about.

None of the top players will ever test positive that we hear about. Not even Federer, who with 31 easily beats guys 5-6 years younger than him.

Federer fans go berserk when someone suspects he might be
one of them' as well, but there is no evidence why he should be spared. When you think there is doping in tennis, then you have to suspect it to be everywhere.

I actually think Federer is the 'Lance Armstrong' of tennis. Has been there for ages, won everything, and still winning slams with 31- getting the easiest draws- gets a lot of support from ATP. And is definitely, utterly untouchable.

 

[lemoogle]

Let's be fair though. I haven't read this thread, and this has probably been said many times. But tennis is still a sport based on skill... Now sure nadal's style is more suited to doping, but I dont really see how doping helps federer THAT much.

Now if we're talking about Bourne Legacy style doping then sure

 

[lemoogle]

I actually think Federer is the 'Lance Armstrong' of tennis. Has been there for ages, won everything, and still winning slams with 31- getting the easiest draws- gets a lot of support from ATP. And is definitely, utterly untouchable.

What do you mean easiest draws.... The top seeds have a set position in the brackets.... Federer can't do much about it....

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Let's be fair though. I haven't read this thread, and this has probably been said many times. But tennis is still a sport based on skill... Now sure nadal's style is more suited to doping, but I dont really see how doping helps federer THAT much.

Now if we're talking about Bourne Legacy style doping then sure

A style based off superior physical attributes whilst by his own admission doing almost no physical training beyond tennis skills and playing matches. Standing way behind the baseline and hitting it back really hard.

Consistency is usually a counter argument to doping and Nadal is showing increasing signs of someone who cycles on and off. Lance was the most disproportionately good cyclist at the Tour De France, IMO, because you can't use all these drugs day in day out year round.

I don't know if Fed juices but I'd he does I think it's in smaller quantities than Rafa.

 

[lemoogle]

A style based off superior physical attributes whilst by his own admission doing almost no physical training beyond tennis skills and playing matches. Standing way behind the baseline and hitting it back really hard.

Consistency is usually a counter argument to doping and Nadal is showing increasing signs of someone who cycles on and off. Lance was the most disproportionately good cyclist at the Tour De France, IMO, because you can't use all these drugs day in day out year round.

I don't know if Fed juices but I'd he does I think it's in smaller quantities than Rafa.

No I understand you, doping would definitely help with recovery and fitness for matches , as well as power ( although power is dependant of style of play as agreed ), and Tennis players might well dope.
I just dont feel like doping alone would be enough to take you from a top 50 to a number one spot ( which is really what happens in cycling let's be honest).
And while some tennis players do seem to have on-off cycles to some extent. Just look how packed the Tennis calendar is, the season is so long and Nadal has shown to be consistent over the course of multiple seasons. ( although I agree that Nadal would be more suspect of doping , based on his physical issues and form, as well as style of play and musculature )

 

[peterh]

I don't want to make the impression i just registered here for breaking a lance (haha) for nadal, since in fact i have been reading here for a long time and mostly followed the Armstrong story and development. But i have seen Nadal in person several times and his 'muscular' body looks totally natural when you see him in person. There is nothing different from other tennis players, many of them are indeed a lot more muscular. This is absolutely no indication of doping.

What are actually indications of doping in tennis? Its not muscles. All tennis players have muscles, more or less, but none of them looks like Schwarzenegger. To much weight (and muscles are weight) are actually counterproductive.

Longetivity in success? Then the biggest suspect would be Federer. Trying to catch the top guys for years and then suddenly, in one year, beating them all again and again? Djokovic. Saying things like 'i'll prepare the season in a special training program in Miami'? Murray. Cynical as i am at times, my association was 'prepare the season in a special doping program in Miami'.

Since there is no real evidence for any of the top guys (the few being thrown under the bus here and there don't really count because it has never been one of the top guys), doping in tennis is up to today mere speculation mostly depending on liking or not liking a player.

I do wish we knew more about it, but we don't. ITF and ATP might not be specific in 'protecting' top players, but they don't seem to be very interested in finding out either.

 

[Bicycle]

Nadal hits 50% more topspin on the ball than anyone ever has before - he does this for 4+ hours sometimes.

 

[peterh]

Nadal hits 50% more topspin on the ball than anyone ever has before - he does this for 4+ hours sometimes.

He does indeed. Nadal has a very special way of hitting the ball, his grip and the angle. He already did that when he was 12. Its just natural for him, maybe supported by playing left while actually being right handed. But he is not hitting topspins for 4 hours.

Discussing doping in tennis is still mostly pure speculation. You can count all and nothing for 'evidence'. Unfortunately there is no 'real' evidence.

Tipsarevic, for example, has legs like trees (all based on seeing him in person, not on TV. TV or pictures can be very misleading here). So has Haas. And he is already 34. Does that mean Haas is doping? Youzhny is all skin and tendons. Does that mean he is not?

This all is no evidence. Too simple. In my humble opinion, if there is doping in tennis in the top ranks- and when looking at professional sport in general, it would be a bit naive to believe there isn't- its a lot more complex than most people think.