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Tennis

Aug 16, 2012
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Hi - new to this forum. Doping in sport is something that particularly interests me. I just wondered how you cycling fans feel about tennis.

Many of the very biggest names in cycling have been caught doping - but in tennis a top player has never been caught. Looking at the doping statistics the top guys are tested out of competition perhaps no more than once per year. In women's some are never tested - the Williams sisters had no out-of-competition tests in 2010 and 2011.

I watch the game I love and frankly no longer believe it. Top players missing chunks of the season "injured" and coming back better than ever. 4hour+ matches with guys looking as strong at the end as at the beginning.

I'm convinced doping is rife in top tennis and that the testing is a joke. What do you think?
 
Aug 6, 2009
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An equal amount of doping would likely benefit you less in tennis than in Cycling because it's easier to dope for performance in primarily physiological sports as cycling. If you gain less then likely less doping is taking place. Of cause that's assuming an equal amount of doping, and as you say there's much less testing in tennis which mean that they can get away with using more.

In summery I suspect you're right. When there's hardly any testing it's difficult to impossible to compete clean.
 
Jun 18, 2012
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Reality is most tennis fans are like most sports fans - absolutely blinkered and ignorant of the thought that this might be taking place. As tennis doesn't have the history that cycling does, there's no reason for them to suspect otherwise. It's a blinkered view, but one that most sports never deviate from.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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Does anyone have any more information on the supposed existence of a "X strikes and you're out" rule? In that players can refuse to submit to dope tests - but only a maximum of X times. So basically a player can dope out of competition and if a tester turns up refuse to take the test. But once a player has refused a certain number of tests he better come off the juice or risk getting caught.
 
Bicycle said:
Hi - new to this forum. Doping in sport is something that particularly interests me. I just wondered how you cycling fans feel about tennis.

Many of the very biggest names in cycling have been caught doping - but in tennis a top player has never been caught. Looking at the doping statistics the top guys are tested out of competition perhaps no more than once per year. In women's some are never tested - the Williams sisters had no out-of-competition tests in 2010 and 2011.

I watch the game I love and frankly no longer believe it. Top players missing chunks of the season "injured" and coming back better than ever. 4hour+ matches with guys looking as strong at the end as at the beginning.

I'm convinced doping is rife in top tennis and that the testing is a joke. What do you think?
Welcome To The Clinic. Here we think tennis is one of the biggest joke. You should search a thread by Moose called "Tennis is ridiculous"
 
Aug 16, 2012
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Just been looking at the ITF doping rules

Where, in any eighteen-month period, a Player in the
International Registered Testing Pool is declared to have three
Filing Failures, or three Missed Tests, or any combination of
Filing Failures and Missed Tests adding up to three in total,
whether under this Programme, or (in accordance with Article
11.1.5 of the International Standard for Testing) under the rules
of any other relevant Anti-Doping Organisation, then (save only
where Article 11.6.5(a) of the International Standard for
Testing provides otherwise) the matter shall be referred to the
Review Board to determine, in accordance with Article 7.5.2 of
this Programme and Article 11.6.5 of the International Standard
for Testing, whether the Player has a case to answer under
Article 2.4.
This seems ridiculously easy to get around. Declare bogus whereabouts and this gets you past 2 doping tests - just make sure you're available for the third. Does anyone disagree with my interpretation here?

This would explain dips in form for top players who sitting on 2 "strikes" have to lay off the juice for a while until their strikes counter gets reset to zero.
 
Bicycle said:
Just been looking at the ITF doping rules



This seems ridiculously easy to get around. Declare bogus whereabouts and this gets you past 2 doping tests - just make sure you're available for the third. Does anyone disagree with my interpretation here?

This would explain dips in form for top players who sitting on 2 "strikes" have to lay off the juice for a while until their strikes counter gets reset to zero.
Given they on average get tested OOC once a year, yep pretty easy to get round.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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the picture for tennis is a bit similar to that of football.

typically, the type of doping stories that arouse some public and media interest involve recreational stuff like marihuana (Caprtiati) and cocaine (Gasquet).

As for Agassi, I assume his program involved more than just chrystal meth, but he wisely admitted to chrystal meth only. (btw. Does anybody know how effective CM actually is for e.g. tennis or football players?)

Petr Korda once got busted for nandrolon.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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sniper said:
the picture for tennis is a bit similar to that of football.

typically, the type of doping stories that arouse some public and media interest involve recreational stuff like marihuana (Caprtiati) and cocaine (Gasquet).

As for Agassi, I assume his program involved more than just chrystal meth, but he wisely admitted to chrystal meth only. (btw. Does anybody know how effective CM actually is for e.g. tennis or football players?)
The tennis media loved the Hingis/Gasquet cocaine busts - cleverly confusing the issues of PEDs and recreational drugs to give the impression that tennis is tough on drugs.

Tennis is certainly tough on drug use - unless they enhance your performance.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Bicycle said:
The tennis media loved the Hingis/Gasquet cocaine busts - cleverly confusing the issues of PEDs and recreational drugs to give the impression that tennis is tough on drugs.

Tennis is certainly tough on drug use - unless they enhance your performance.
hehe, to the point.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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blackcat said:
greg rusedksi too

But Odesnik of the US out of Soufrica, seems to have a Ricco like rep in the ATP with fellow Americans. ouch
http://www.sbnation.com/tennis/2011/8/4/2342638/wayne-odesnik-ban-hgh-human-growth-hormone-comeback-suspension-atp
Wayne Odesnik, The Most Hated Man In Tennis


Kordr
rusedski

scapegoats. did Agassi do a runner on a surprise test at Australian Open in the 90's? Was when he was with Graf and had a child.
as for rusedski, he clearly had to make up for a lack of natural talent. but a real pitty he got scapegoated. he was with distance one of the more interesting guys out there.

Agassi doing a Beltran back in the 90s? It would be cool if we had some footage of that :D
 
Aug 16, 2012
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It seems that unless you're incredibly stupid you're not going to get caught. As long as you come off the juice in time for competition you're laughing.
 
Sep 26, 2009
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I thought Murrays annihalation of Federer in the Olympics was well dodgey - never seen Murray perform like that ever - the usual tired look wasnt there and he was jumping up and down like Nadal when receiving serve. Looked like he was jacked.
 
May 26, 2010
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Bicycle said:
It seems that unless you're incredibly stupid you're not going to get caught. As long as you come off the juice in time for competition you're laughing.
I would suggest that certain tennis stars take them during competition and even during matches. The Williams sisters have had some amazing performances after loo breaks.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Tennis Federation is similar to UCI.

All top money sports are corrupt.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Cycle Chic said:
I thought Murrays annihalation of Federer in the Olympics was well dodgey - never seen Murray perform like that ever - the usual tired look wasnt there and he was jumping up and down like Nadal when receiving serve. Looked like he was jacked.
I'm not sure what was dodgier: murray's performance or Federer's underperformance. (must admit I haven't seen the game)

We saw other tennis players (who were in very good shape before the Games) deliberately avoiding the Games (e.g. Haas, Kohlschreiber, Mardy Fish and a couple of others), apparently to avoid the more stringent drug controls.
It wouldn't surprise me though if murray knew beforehand he wasn't going to be tested.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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sniper said:
I'm not sure what was dodgier: murray's performance or Federer's underperformance. (must admit I haven't seen the game)

We saw other tennis players (who were in very good shape before the Games) deliberately avoiding the Games (e.g. Haas, Kohlschreiber, Mardy Fish and a couple of others), apparently to avoid the more stringent drug controls.
It wouldn't surprise me though if murray knew beforehand he wasn't going to be tested.
I think the Olympic final was mostly down to Federer's poor play. He'd had that marathon semi with Del Potro where he had to serve to save the match in a dozen or so straight games - that must have been mentally exhausting.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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Cycle Chic said:
I thought Murrays annihalation of Federer in the Olympics was well dodgey - never seen Murray perform like that ever - the usual tired look wasnt there and he was jumping up and down like Nadal when receiving serve. Looked like he was jacked.
It was said that Murray was too fragile and prone to injury to make it big time, so he went away and got muscled up. Obviously he achieved the latter through lots of gym work!
 
Feb 28, 2010
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sniper said:
as for rusedski, he clearly had to make up for a lack of natural talent. but a real pitty he got scapegoated. he was with distance one of the more interesting guys out there.

Agassi doing a Beltran back in the 90s? It would be cool if we had some footage of that :D
But he got off on a technicality, apparently the diet supplement the Tennis Federation official coaches gave him were contaminated with nandrolone. The fact that they were never able nandrolone in any of the supplements didn't seem to work anyone!
 
May 19, 2010
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Djokovic: Djokovic disappointed in Lance Armstrong downfall

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/djokovic-disappointed-lance-armstrong-downfall-213452625--ten.html

"When I heard that story, and many others, I'm disappointed as an athlete, because I know how much it takes to get to where we are and on the top of our own sport, how much sacrifice, commitment, hard work," Djokovic said.

"In the end we are all seeking to have pure sport. I'm happy that in tennis we do not have that many cases and we are trying to keep that going to keep tradition and to protect the integrity of the sport.
"That's something that sends a strong message about our sport also to young kids because they look up for heroes and they look for role models."

My summary: Djokovic says he is sad that Armstrong got caught and happy that tennis players aren't being caught.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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neineinei said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/djokovic-disappointed-lance-armstrong-downfall-213452625--ten.html

"When I heard that story, and many others, I'm disappointed as an athlete, because I know how much it takes to get to where we are and on the top of our own sport, how much sacrifice, commitment, hard work," Djokovic said.

"In the end we are all seeking to have pure sport. I'm happy that in tennis we do not have that many cases and we are trying to keep that going to keep tradition and to protect the integrity of the sport.
"That's something that sends a strong message about our sport also to young kids because they look up for heroes and they look for role models."

My summary: Djokovic says he is sad that Armstrong got caught and happy that tennis players aren't being caught.
yep. he chooses his words wisely.
he hopes "to keep tradition". Clearly serious dope testing isn't part of that tradition.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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sniper said:
yep. he chooses his words wisely.
he hopes "to keep tradition". Clearly serious dope testing isn't part of that tradition.
You're so cruel. Venus Williams said she was perfectly willing to be tested, as long as she was told in advance.

oops, let me correct that, I think it was Serena not Venus.
 
Aug 16, 2012
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pugdog said:
You're so cruel. Venus Williams said she was perfectly willing to be tested, as long as she was told in advance.

oops, let me correct that, I think it was Serena not Venus.

So far looks like the ITF are abiding by her wishes ;)
 

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