The 2020 Olympic Time Trials (Men/Women) Race Thread

[CyclistAbi]

Maybe there should be a list of safe words to be used in inner team communication. Like Condor, Eagle, Bull, Goat, Mamba ... Hence if there is a leak to the public to not ride a camel back home. Pun intended.

P.S. I agree that making a monkey impersonations and throwing a banana on a football match is over the top. But that is a whole different level as there you intentionally direct such trash talk to some person. And yes there could be some racists involved. And that person should not have to put up with that. I am not defending that in any way. But note that at the same time i am not saying there should not be some trash talk on football matches. That would be extreme.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

"Inner team communication" and "leak to the public" are just meaningless phrases. The comments were heard on German broadcast TV during the live broadcast and the commentator instantly understood the comments as inappropriate.

It's not complicated. You have basically 2 choices: 1) Don't say stupid things, or 2) If you insist on saying stupid things, then you should understand that you don't belong in a public role. And if you don't understand that being at the Olympics is by definition a public role, than tough luck.

 

[Sciatic]

"Inner team communication" and "leak to the public" are just meaningless phrases. The comments were heard on German broadcast TV during the live broadcast and the commentator instantly understood the comments as inappropriate.

It's not complicated. You have basically 2 choices: 1) Don't say stupid things, or 2) If you insist on saying stupid things, then you should understand that you don't belong in a public role. And if you don't understand that being at the Olympics is by definition a public role, than tough luck.

Well put.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Would you say that Yank(ee) is a (potentially) racist remark?

EDIT: Okay, maybe a better example is calling a German Kraut. Clearly derogatory, but racist?

Well, it's immediately an issue of being discriminatory and xenophobic, but the separator here is not one of race, because it's something specific to that particular nation rather than a slur directed at a general ethnic group. "Camel herder" in this example was not used to specifically identify Lagab because he's specifically Algerian, it was to identify him because he's of a North African/Middle Eastern race in general, and I think that's an important distinction.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Kaptain Kool

Still, there is a rather substantial difference in saying stupid and saying racist things. And being accused of one or another.

As if there would be a ban on saying stupid things in public then likely a lot of coaches would loose their job the next day. Politics wouldn't exist anymore ...

 

[CyclistAbi]

Well, it's immediately an issue of being discriminatory and xenophobic, but the separator here is not one of race, because it's something specific to that particular nation rather than a slur directed at a general ethnic group. "Camel herder" in this example was not used to specifically identify Lagab because he's specifically Algerian, it was to identify him because he's of a North African/Middle Eastern race in general, and I think that's an important distinction.

In that case the same treatment would apply if he would have identified Quintana and would have said follow the Condor?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

In that case the same treatment would apply if he would have identified Quintana and would have said follow the Condor?

Condor isn't a derogatory racial term for the Andean people though. If they said "follow the Indio" or something like that which is derogatory, then that would - and should - be called out.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

@Kaptain Kool

Still, there is a rather substantial difference in saying stupid and saying racist things. And being accused of one or another.

As if there would be a ban on saying stupid things in public then likely a lot of coaches would loose their job the next day. Politics wouldn't exist anymore ...

No one but you are talking about such a ban, but when your stupid words either become outright racist or can be interpreted as being racist, then it's a different matter. If Moster had said "come on, catch those idiots!", then it wouldn't have been a particular nice thing to say, but he wouldn't have judged them solely on their nationality/ethnicity.

Also I don't think any of us think he should be punished in a "storming the Capitol" kind of way, like a mob showing up to his house with pitchforks, but there should be consequences.

 

[Netserk]

Well, it's immediately an issue of being discriminatory and xenophobic, but the separator here is not one of race, because it's something specific to that particular nation rather than a slur directed at a general ethnic group. "Camel herder" in this example was not used to specifically identify Lagab because he's specifically Algerian, it was to identify him because he's of a North African/Middle Eastern race in general, and I think that's an important distinction.

But far from clear cut what categories count as races. Are Sami a race? Scandinavians? Turks? Kurds? Would no specific insult towards those groups count as racist?

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Libertine Seguros

I don't know hence i am asking. Is a camel really considered to be a derogatory racial term for Arab people and by Arab people? AFAIK they rate camel in Arab world rather high? Likely somewhere in the range of a horse?

If Moster had said "come on, catch those idiots!"

Good luck with that.

 

[BlueRoads]

In this case Kameltreiber means: the guys in front of you belong to a certain group (due to where they are from) that is good for camel herding, but not for cycling, they shouldn't even be here, they shouldn't be in front of you, you are superior because of where you are from, you are a real cyclist (because you are German/European/white), now show them the score.

If this ain't racism I don't know what is (in terms of words).

 

[CyclistAbi]

@BlueRoads

But you do agree that this is a rather extreme point of view? Or are you saying this is how a normal world would look like?

P.S. In that world the coach would not be allowed to say go beat that guy as you are better then him.

 

[King Boonen]

Mod hat on:

this has now descended into a discussion that has very little to do with cycling and as such we’re going to close it.

Quite frankly I can’t even understand how it’s a discussion but there we go, it’s now over.

Cheers,