Re: Re:
Let us not kid ourselves, the Muslim world was the fower if civilization in the ninth through twelfth centuries, but since then regression. On the other hand, the Judeo-Christian West invented the atomic bomb and financial anarchy. So I did but "progressivism" in quotation marks, at least give me some credit for intellectual honesty now.
Starstruck said:rhubroma said:@Merckx Index. I don't think we should consider South America and the Middle East in the same vein. For one thing, the present Middle East (as a post-colonial construct) has resulted from the effects of mostly British orientalism, however the term might be unsatisfactory, a failed Zionism and reckless US militarism. By contrast, South America resulted from the same European colonialism that begot the US, but composed of peasants that latched onto Marxism in various degrees during the Cold War. In any case the South Americans participated in the same ideologies that drove the West in the 20th century.
What the West is confronting in the Middle East, however, is the very negation of "progressivism," as such, because the Muslim states have had no (or very contained) process of secularization. The goal is theocracy tout court. For this reason, Erdogan has been challenged by that military that fears a loss of standing, should Turkey be transformed into a Caliphate.
At this point religiousity is the key.
...because Lebanon is the same as Saudi Arabia is the same as Iran is the same as Turkey.
I can't share your faith in reason.
Let us not kid ourselves, the Muslim world was the fower if civilization in the ninth through twelfth centuries, but since then regression. On the other hand, the Judeo-Christian West invented the atomic bomb and financial anarchy. So I did but "progressivism" in quotation marks, at least give me some credit for intellectual honesty now.