- Feb 23, 2014
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Re: Re:
Read the Bible and then call me out.
It's funny how you've tried to turn this around and talk about Christians. You can do that in the religion thread. This thread has to do with terrorism. My original post was made in light of current events. You're trying to muddy the waters and change the subject by attacking my faith.
Starstruck said:
Read the Bible and then call me out.
It's funny how you've tried to turn this around and talk about Christians. You can do that in the religion thread. This thread has to do with terrorism. My original post was made in light of current events. You're trying to muddy the waters and change the subject by attacking my faith.
- Feb 23, 2014
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Re: Re:
Catholics don't follow the bible. It's unfortunate that they are called "Christian." Their beliefs are very different from evangelical Christians. Notice I said you can't follow Jesus. You can call yourself whatever you want. What matters is what do you actually practice. Catholics don't practice/follow the bible.
Melo said:
Catholics don't follow the bible. It's unfortunate that they are called "Christian." Their beliefs are very different from evangelical Christians. Notice I said you can't follow Jesus. You can call yourself whatever you want. What matters is what do you actually practice. Catholics don't practice/follow the bible.
sienna said:
I'm right and if you disagree I'll shoot you, for Jesus/Mohamed/Science?rationality or just cause it's the right thing to do...for your sake. Call it progress.
sienna said:
War is peace, love is only sanctified by hate of an external other. Don't worry it all works out somehow. The important message is that Muslims are evil. Nothing else matters as "we" are under threat.
Re: Re:
How many millions died in the Spanish inquisition? A compare and contrast with dead Middle Easterners over the last 20 years would be illuminating.
kwikki said:
How many millions died in the Spanish inquisition? A compare and contrast with dead Middle Easterners over the last 20 years would be illuminating.
- Apr 2, 2009
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Re: Re:
So evangelical Christians are the only real Christians. Naturally in the infancy of the faith there were none, nor did the bible as such exist. Ironically the very bible you wield is a product of Catholic tradition and, of course, exegesis, however ridiculous, played a huge hand in deciphering it. That's Catholic too. And there was no "pure" Christianity, nor a fundamentalist one in antiquity, but many competing theologies, with lots of promiscuity with paganism, given that the converted pagans gave Christianity its very identity, right down to the term Christianity. But nevermind. It is vexing though that the people who claim most affinity with religion, are in fact totally ignorant of its actual history. What's more it is all human nonsense, human nonsense which has led and leads some religious to commit the worst crimes against humanity in the name of the faith (not surprisingly wielding bible or Koran in hand), even when they should be creating bonds (religere/religio).
Christianity and Islam, in the wake of numerous salvation cults (all of whom more or less imply that beyond the dark void lies immortality), relieved humanity of the tragic state in which it had existed during "the melancholy of the antique world" in the words of Flaubert. For Nietzsche that was the "stroke of genius." Since for the ancients that "black hole" is infinity itself. In promising life after death, Christianity and Islam have assigned humanity a time that is no longer cyclical and bound to nature (as per Heraclites who thought no god created nature, which is immutable and eternal), but eschatological, where in the end is realized what was promised. It's all very providential now isn't it. As such these religions found it necessary to divide humanity into the pure and the impure, into the white lambs and black sheep, between those who insolently call themselves the faithful and the infedels and hence those worthy of salvation and those worthy only of damnation. From this it follows that history and life are only relevant as testimony to the transcendental design, beyond which lies merely disparagement, scorn and the righteous use of suppression, even mass murder.
I fear that cultivating "peace" as the only winning response, may not be adequate in confronting and arresting the current phenomenon of religious zeal, when the issue of religious zeal isn't even being called for what it is: the irreducible determination to exterminate that part of humanity, no matter how large, that doesn't want to live under fundamentalism. It's either submission or death. That's how today's religious fanatics want it. Peace, even in our daily banalities, might help us retain our humanity, but it can't be enough. War is already among us on the Promenade des Anglais and, more insidiously, everytime someone approaches me wielding a bible saying they "know the great design."
Jspear said:
So evangelical Christians are the only real Christians. Naturally in the infancy of the faith there were none, nor did the bible as such exist. Ironically the very bible you wield is a product of Catholic tradition and, of course, exegesis, however ridiculous, played a huge hand in deciphering it. That's Catholic too. And there was no "pure" Christianity, nor a fundamentalist one in antiquity, but many competing theologies, with lots of promiscuity with paganism, given that the converted pagans gave Christianity its very identity, right down to the term Christianity. But nevermind. It is vexing though that the people who claim most affinity with religion, are in fact totally ignorant of its actual history. What's more it is all human nonsense, human nonsense which has led and leads some religious to commit the worst crimes against humanity in the name of the faith (not surprisingly wielding bible or Koran in hand), even when they should be creating bonds (religere/religio).
Christianity and Islam, in the wake of numerous salvation cults (all of whom more or less imply that beyond the dark void lies immortality), relieved humanity of the tragic state in which it had existed during "the melancholy of the antique world" in the words of Flaubert. For Nietzsche that was the "stroke of genius." Since for the ancients that "black hole" is infinity itself. In promising life after death, Christianity and Islam have assigned humanity a time that is no longer cyclical and bound to nature (as per Heraclites who thought no god created nature, which is immutable and eternal), but eschatological, where in the end is realized what was promised. It's all very providential now isn't it. As such these religions found it necessary to divide humanity into the pure and the impure, into the white lambs and black sheep, between those who insolently call themselves the faithful and the infedels and hence those worthy of salvation and those worthy only of damnation. From this it follows that history and life are only relevant as testimony to the transcendental design, beyond which lies merely disparagement, scorn and the righteous use of suppression, even mass murder.
I fear that cultivating "peace" as the only winning response, may not be adequate in confronting and arresting the current phenomenon of religious zeal, when the issue of religious zeal isn't even being called for what it is: the irreducible determination to exterminate that part of humanity, no matter how large, that doesn't want to live under fundamentalism. It's either submission or death. That's how today's religious fanatics want it. Peace, even in our daily banalities, might help us retain our humanity, but it can't be enough. War is already among us on the Promenade des Anglais and, more insidiously, everytime someone approaches me wielding a bible saying they "know the great design."
- Feb 23, 2014
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Re: Re:
It was eisegesis that defined the Roman Catholic church. Look at what they teach and then look at the writings of the apostles - the two can't go hand in hand. We don't need to get into a detailed study of Catholic doctrine in this thread.
I understand that there has been various views among Christians in the past, today, and there will be in the future. But there is a common core of beliefs which has always defined a Christian. Since the time the apostles wrote the gospels and epistles, the church has understood these core doctrines. As well, since the inception of the New Testament church there has always been heresy's. This doesn't invalidate the point that there was a commonly held faith among true believers. This to could be expanded on in the religion thread.
Religion, Christianity in particular, didn't find it necessary. As in it wasn't a doctrine made up to give credence to another doctrine. The doctrine of sin stems from a true understanding of human nature. For any human to try and pretend like they are faultless (pure), shows just how blind they are to their own state.
Unfortunately your right. Radicals are to hard headed and wouldn't hear any message of peace. The solution to this problem could have many faces. I don't want to even pretend to know what exactly could help on a world wide scale.
rhubroma said:
It was eisegesis that defined the Roman Catholic church. Look at what they teach and then look at the writings of the apostles - the two can't go hand in hand. We don't need to get into a detailed study of Catholic doctrine in this thread.
I understand that there has been various views among Christians in the past, today, and there will be in the future. But there is a common core of beliefs which has always defined a Christian. Since the time the apostles wrote the gospels and epistles, the church has understood these core doctrines. As well, since the inception of the New Testament church there has always been heresy's. This doesn't invalidate the point that there was a commonly held faith among true believers. This to could be expanded on in the religion thread.
Religion, Christianity in particular, didn't find it necessary. As in it wasn't a doctrine made up to give credence to another doctrine. The doctrine of sin stems from a true understanding of human nature. For any human to try and pretend like they are faultless (pure), shows just how blind they are to their own state.
Unfortunately your right. Radicals are to hard headed and wouldn't hear any message of peace. The solution to this problem could have many faces. I don't want to even pretend to know what exactly could help on a world wide scale.
- Jul 27, 2010
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Re: Re:
But that’s just what your religion does. You assume a literal reading of the Bible that allows for no correction whatsoever in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary. To understand that no one is without fault means accepting the possibility that any of one’s beliefs might be wrong, and you categorically refuse to do this.
We're all ignorant to some extent, but fundamentalists like yourself are blind to their own ignorance, or maybe just in major denial of it.
Jspear said:
But that’s just what your religion does. You assume a literal reading of the Bible that allows for no correction whatsoever in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary. To understand that no one is without fault means accepting the possibility that any of one’s beliefs might be wrong, and you categorically refuse to do this.
We're all ignorant to some extent, but fundamentalists like yourself are blind to their own ignorance, or maybe just in major denial of it.
Re: Re:
Hold on, I must just go and tell my family that they can burn all their bibles, because according to a guy on an internet forum they don't 'follow' it. Anyone got a number for the Vatican, actually? Seems like the kind of thing they'd like to know.
Jspear said:
Hold on, I must just go and tell my family that they can burn all their bibles, because according to a guy on an internet forum they don't 'follow' it. Anyone got a number for the Vatican, actually? Seems like the kind of thing they'd like to know.
Re: Re:
Great post.
https://www.amazon.ca/Silence-Animals-Progress-Other-Modern/dp/0374534667
Scary and depressing, funny and liberating.
Energy can't be created or destroyed. I'd like to donate my energy, when I expire, to become a bumblebee and a field of dandelions. Short and sweet, eternal life.
rhubroma said:
Great post.
https://www.amazon.ca/Silence-Animals-Progress-Other-Modern/dp/0374534667
Scary and depressing, funny and liberating.
Energy can't be created or destroyed. I'd like to donate my energy, when I expire, to become a bumblebee and a field of dandelions. Short and sweet, eternal life.
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
- 6,150
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I am surprised there aren't more stories about the potential threat to the Tour de France after the Nice attacks. Here's one today in the Australian media.
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tour-de-france-is-uniquely-vulnerable-to-terrorism-20160718-gq7wbv.html
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/tour-de-france-is-uniquely-vulnerable-to-terrorism-20160718-gq7wbv.html
Cookster15
Moderator
- May 14, 2011
- 6,150
- 6,656
- 23,180
Re: Re:
With respect I think you are missing Jspear's point and haven't explained your position. When terrorists are "radicalised" it means they have accepted as fact what they have been led to believe by fallible humans. Yet I don't see Catholic fundamentalists driving trucks into women and children enjoying a night out in Nice, Executing Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics, Flying loaded passenger planes into New York skyscrapers, blowing up trains in Madrid, blowing up nightclubs in Bali, Charlie Hebdo, Brussels bombings, subjugating millions in Syria and Iraq to a narrow interpretation of their faith - convert or suffer the consequences. Religious faith and accepting the word of other humans is what propagates terrorism.
If enjoying the freedoms taken for granted in western countries is ignorance then so be it. Beats what the Muslim world looks like.
I am not religious. I just use my common sense view of what is right. Forcing women to wear the Burqa isn't right. Throwing gay men off buildings then stoning the remaining life from their bodies isn't right. Beheading innocent women and children isn't right. Killing thousands of Yazidi's isn't right. Yet all these acts were carried out by persons believing themselves to be Muslim. Christianity sorted out its problems hundreds of years ago. Islam hasn't. Even the Irish Catholics and Protestants have learned to coexist peacefully. Some have declared we are experiencing a 100 year war. Well it certainly will last that long if we deny the root causes.
The problems of the Middle East being exported globally pre date the 2003 invasion of Iraq by hundreds of years. Islam is at war with itself let alone those of different or no faith. The naive view is the view that ignores these historical facts. It didn't all start with George W Bush.
Merckx index said:
With respect I think you are missing Jspear's point and haven't explained your position. When terrorists are "radicalised" it means they have accepted as fact what they have been led to believe by fallible humans. Yet I don't see Catholic fundamentalists driving trucks into women and children enjoying a night out in Nice, Executing Israeli athletes at the 1972 Olympics, Flying loaded passenger planes into New York skyscrapers, blowing up trains in Madrid, blowing up nightclubs in Bali, Charlie Hebdo, Brussels bombings, subjugating millions in Syria and Iraq to a narrow interpretation of their faith - convert or suffer the consequences. Religious faith and accepting the word of other humans is what propagates terrorism.
If enjoying the freedoms taken for granted in western countries is ignorance then so be it. Beats what the Muslim world looks like.
I am not religious. I just use my common sense view of what is right. Forcing women to wear the Burqa isn't right. Throwing gay men off buildings then stoning the remaining life from their bodies isn't right. Beheading innocent women and children isn't right. Killing thousands of Yazidi's isn't right. Yet all these acts were carried out by persons believing themselves to be Muslim. Christianity sorted out its problems hundreds of years ago. Islam hasn't. Even the Irish Catholics and Protestants have learned to coexist peacefully. Some have declared we are experiencing a 100 year war. Well it certainly will last that long if we deny the root causes.
The problems of the Middle East being exported globally pre date the 2003 invasion of Iraq by hundreds of years. Islam is at war with itself let alone those of different or no faith. The naive view is the view that ignores these historical facts. It didn't all start with George W Bush.
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