The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[elizab]

journalists -

How about a new topic on journalists? Some are unabashedly lance's biggest cheerleaders. Some never bought into the fraud from the get-go. And some waded in the middle ground in the name of access.
I'd start the topic but am chary about doing so for various reasons.

 

[goober]

As to who the two riders are, Zabriskie and Hincapie are just my educated guesses. They are the only two people still riding who are yet to publicly react to Landis' accusations.

Michael Barry has already begun publicly pretending nothing ever happened and it's not like any of the Retirement Shack old men are going to change their culture of lying.

Heck, even the Hog today lied yet again. In case you didn't see, he once again repeated his delusional fantasy that "he dropped Induráin", when anyone who saw that stage knows very well that has absolutely nothing to do with what really happened. Already a month or so ago he'd said he was "the only man who ever beat Induráin". Not only did he never do that, a lot of other people did.

When you have an A-grade liar like that leading the team, you can't reasonably expect the riders on it to come out with any sort of truth.

See there you go again. Unless you understand what you are talking about you should not make such statements. Hog is saying he dropped Armstrong 20 minutes earlier. I'll let you figure out what the comment about beating Indurain was in reference to - if you get stumped just ask and I will help.

Edit: Also, when making up statements like "he dropped Indurain" when he actually said "And who did I drop 20 min earlier" (in reference to Armstrong who Indurain actually dropped with Hog in tow) can you put a disclaimer that you have no idea what you actually read and interpreted it that way to save other readers time?

 

[Parrot23]

Journalists have a complicated job between gaining access to sources, cultivating them, yet remaining objective.

In the past, and continuing in some respects today, she could have been more objective. Many people could have.

Exactly per what Elizab is saying above. It's a difficult job with conflicting demands.

 

[filipo]

How about a new topic on journalists? Some are unabashedly lance's biggest cheerleaders. Some never bought into the fraud from the get-go. And some waded in the middle ground in the name of access.
I'd start the topic but am chary about doing so for various reasons.

Lord lord lordy -- I'd start the topic, but my head would instantly explode.

Plus I might lose some great access.

 

[filipo]

Learn to read, filipo. Then think

Go **** yourself, Parrot. Then do it again.

 

[issoisso]

See there you go again. Unless you understand what you are talking about you should not make such statements. Hog is saying he dropped Armstrong 20 minutes earlier. I'll let you figure out what the comment about beating Indurain was in reference to - if you get stumped jsut ask and I will help.

Right. Of course it was. In fact, the fact that he posted a picture of himself and Induráin on that very stage and climb is just a coincidence, too.

 

[MacRoadie]

How about a new topic on journalists? Some are unabashedly lance's biggest cheerleaders. Some never bought into the fraud from the get-go. And some waded in the middle ground in the name of access.
I'd start the topic but am chary about doing so for various reasons.

Shouldn't you be off charging your scooter or something?

 

[goober]

Can't we all just get along even if we have differen opinions?

 

[Wallace]

Kids...

I wonder what impact the NY Times piece will have on this year's Tour. It seems definite that Lance is going to ride the thing, but now everyone knows that at least two of his former team-mates have corroborated Landis' accusations. And who knows what the WSJ piece will say, when it finally appears. Plus, the guy is under serious Federal investigation. If Lance does well in the Tour (I don't think he particularly will, but it is within the realm of possibility), the mood on the roads could get very ugly. It seems to me that it would be a disaster for the race if he even wins a stage. Is there anything going on in the French papers about how the news over here is effecting the mood over there?

 

[Parrot23]

Shouldn't you be off charging your scooter or something?

Hey MacRoadie, on my part, I only charge my Trek scooter.

 

[goober]

Right. Of course it was. In fact, the fact that he posted a picture of himself and Induráin on that very stage and climb is just a coincidence, too.

Lance posted that picture you dim bulb. hahahaha. I can understand the confusion and appologize for my strong words here. Just playing. Seriously Lance posted that twitpic....

 

[python]

the way i read novitzky operated in the past to get bonds and balco, i would not be surprised in the least if the liposuction-chicken-pussy-bottle wore a hidden mic during the hog team meetings (I mean after 20 may in the toc)

We’ll learn the truth rather soon as texas is incapable of hiding his hatred for ‘someone betraying cycling ‘.

so i vote, dave z has certainly spilled the beans - watch his treatment by the la and his sycophants./the way i read novitzky operated to get bonds and balco, i would not be surprised in the least if the liposuction-chicken-pussy-bottle wore a hidden mic during the hog team meetings (I mean after 20 may in the toc)
We’ll learn the truth rather soon as texas is incapable of hiding his hatred for ‘someone betraying cycling ‘

 

[mastersracer]

Lance posted that picture you dim bulb. hahahaha. I can understand the confusion and appologize for my strong words here. Just playing. Seriously Lance posted that twitpic....

just for the record Graham Watson posted it...

 

[goober]

Kids...

I wonder what impact the NY Times piece will have on this year's Tour. It seems definite that Lance is going to ride the thing, but now everyone knows that at least two of his former team-mates have corroborated Landis' accusations. And who knows what the WSJ piece will say, when it finally appears. Plus, the guy is under serious Federal investigation. If Lance does well in the Tour (I don't think he particularly will, but it is within the realm of possibility), the mood on the roads could get very ugly. It seems to me that it would be a disaster for the race if he even wins a stage. Is there anything going on in the French papers about how the news over here is effecting the mood over there?

Let me try one more time... There is no indication that two team-mates corroborated Landis' accusations. You are reading far too much into the words of the Times article. Remember the two riders provided no details so how can these authors know the story was corroborated. As I keep saying this is media spin 101. If they knew anything they would have included it and made this a more powerful story.

 

[python]

its a goober spin 101, not the media. goober is a minor spinner exposed and denuded too many times.

 

[goober]

just for the record Graham Watson posted it...

Correct. Lance tweeted to Hog with pic.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Let me try one more time... There is no indication that two team-mates corroborated Landis' accusations. You are reading far too much into the words of the Times article. Remember the two riders provided no details so how can these authors know the story was corroborated. As I keep saying this is media spin 101. If they knew anything they would have included it and made this a more powerful story.

OK, I to am in the mood to try one last time to help a knucklehead get a clue. If the riders in question had stonewalled then they would not need to remain anonymous. They would have said 'yes I was called in to testify and I told them that Landis is a dirty rotten liar, and that Lance is the most tested athlete in the world and has never tested positive'.
To put it another way, if they had Lance's back they would not mind him knowing about it.

 

[Polish]

"Dirty old river, must you keep rolling, flowing into the night"

MY sources are telling me the story will be coming out soon.
Very soon.

The Tour is less than 100 hours away.....
But do not give up hope!

My grandpapa from the old country taught me this ditty when I was a just a sprout - as a way to keep my spirits up. The story is coming. Patience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM
.
.
.

 

[alberto.legstrong]

How about a new topic on journalists? Some are unabashedly lance's biggest cheerleaders. Some never bought into the fraud from the get-go. And some waded in the middle ground in the name of access.
I'd start the topic but am chary about doing so for various reasons.

Most journalists (of any stripe) are more than willing to compromise their integrity to get access to a major celebrity. None of them that do would ever even think it's true (spelled: S_T_R_I_C_K_L_A_N_D) but I'll bet it's a lot more fun at cocktail parties telling people about going out partying with Lance then to be the guy on Lance's $hitlist.

Additionally, he butters their bread. Or do you think he would sell as many copies of his book if an American working for American publications selling books largely to Americans wrote a book about Eddy Merckx? (Or Saul Raisin for that matter.) His name carries a cachet with people outside cycling.

Imagine toiling for years writing and scratching out a living getting an article published several times a year, and then a guy in your area of expertise emerges? What are you gonna do? Look at him objectively or with suspicion? Or be seduced by the sudden demand for your services to write puff pieces about him? Get real, kiddies. It's a two way street and he has made some previously anonymous semi-starving media hacks very comfortable semi-celebs in their own right.

 

[dbrower]

There's still the spike possibility

Not to be cynical, but I think there's a real possibility the WSJ management will decide to vote in favor of Hope and not run whatever story has been rumored to be in the works. Similarly, the Daily News may develop a curious case of idol worship. Stranger things have happened -- even L'Equipe shut up because of "policy" decisions.

-dB

 

[Dunedain]

OK, I to am in the mood to try one last time to help a knucklehead get a clue. If the riders in question had stonewalled then they would not need to remain anonymous. They would have said 'yes I was called in to testify and I told them that Landis is a dirty rotten liar, and that Lance is the most tested athlete in the world and has never tested positive'.
To put it another way, if they had Lance's back they would not mind him knowing about it.

Respectfully, your assumptions as to what these mysterious two riders have said, didn't say, would do, wouldn't do are pure speculation as well. I am underwhelmed by your logic - certainly not sound enough to go around calling people "knuckleheads".

 

[Anonymous]

How about a new topic on journalists? Some are unabashedly lance's biggest cheerleaders. Some never bought into the fraud from the get-go. And some waded in the middle ground in the name of access.
I'd start the topic but am chary about doing so for various reasons.

Honestly I have very little time for most journalists at the moment. Strickland just drives me insane trying to sell his book. 90% of them just fawn to the editorial policy of the newspaper or magazine they work for, or for whoever will sort out their press passes, invite them to a couple of functions. For me, a lot of them are as corrupt as certain riders, the UCI, race organisers etc. Liggett and Sherwen are probably the most obvious examples of complete omerta backers. There are exceptions, David Walsh of course being a notable one. For me, there are far more respectable bloggers that are informed and worth listening to.

AS for CN, i get more and more dissapointed by their reporting. I didnt visit the site for a long time, but recently have and have been pretty dissapointed. They did an awful job of reporting the recent WADA decision which had some really major points in it and they glossed over it completely. The latest NYT article they have failed completely to report that 2 riders are co-operating. Some of the race reports are excellent, but the news reporting is appaling at times. Im sure they just read other news sites and re-report it in their own words. The writer of the wada article clearly hadnt read the report.

 

[Race Radio]

Respectfully, your assumptions as to what these mysterious two riders have said, didn't say, would do, wouldn't do are pure speculation as well. I am underwhelmed by your logic - certainly not sound enough to go around calling people "knuckleheads".

Perhaps you could grace us with your superior logic. Why would a rider be scared of retribution if they had said nothing?

 

[Digger]

In relation to Betsy's post. I find it funny seeing SI suddenly willing to cover the Lance doping issue. In 2005, at the height of Lance's success, there was a sports journalist conference in Ireland, involving leading print journo from around the world. David Walsh absolutely lambasted a person from SI for not having the courage to follow up on the Lance story. The person accepted the facts, but also expressed a lack of will, due to the target audience.
I;ve often said it, but one of my favourite lines of any of David Walsh's, or Paul Kimmage's writings, is David giving Paul advice when he was starting out. 'Never run from the truth'. I can think of three journalists who can hold their head high during the Lance period. The journalists who have jumped on the bandwagon this year make me sick. It's one thing to be ignorant of the facts. But to know what was going on, yet still feed us the lies.....
All they really are, are fans with typewriters, who want to be seen with Lance. The female groupies do the obvious with Lance. The male journos are not much better. It really is Lowest Common Denominator thrash. Lazy journalism with no ethics.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Respectfully, your assumptions as to what these mysterious two riders have said, didn't say, would do, wouldn't do are pure speculation as well. I am underwhelmed by your logic - certainly not sound enough to go around calling people "knuckleheads".

He's a knucklehead regardless of whether or not you follow my logic.
Everything here is speculation at this point, but it is much more likely that what they said hurts Lance if they are trying to keep it under cover. To argue it otherwise one would really have to want it to be otherwise.