The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[kurtinsc]

The lawyer in me thinks this section was heavily worked over by the Feds. Basic corroboration of doping within the team, but no specifics that might help the targets.

Do you really think the feds were in any way involved with the article?

I have zero insight into how closely the media and FDA would work together on something like this. My gut would say that the WSJ wouldn't... they'd value a scoop more then protecting the government's case and couldn't really be compelled not to unless the FDA knew about the article and forced them to in some way... but I've got no factual basis for that.

 

[Publicus]

This year they'll have a more creative way to dispose of them. Have a mechanic eat them? Well I guess they'd still end up in the sewers then. Burn them? Hydrochloric acid? Sneak into the astana hotel and flush them down THEIR toilets?

I'm sure they will try new methods. Curious, why haven't the USPS doctors been picked up yet? Or any of the team doctors?

 

[Publicus]

Do you really think the feds were in any way involved with the article?

I have zero insight into how closely the media and FDA would work together on something like this. My gut would say that the WSJ wouldn't... they'd value a scoop more then protecting the government's case and couldn't really be compelled not to unless the FDA knew about the article and forced them to in some way... but I've got no factual basis for that.

Absolutely.

EDIT: maybe not directly with the WSJ, but definitel with the 3 riders and Floyd.

 

[hrotha]

Disappointed. If other journalists pick up on this, it'll be to ask about them hookers.

I expected something that would force Armstrong to answer questions with more than "He has no credibility, I like our credibility".

 

[scribe]

A few points having just read the article and not any posts above here...

-Nearly all Landis story without direct coorboration. They do suggest one other rider from US Postal has admitted to doping, but didn't seem to even suggest they contributed to this article.
-Danced around the idea that anyone specifically was doing the blow and anything with the dancers.
-This bike selling operation sounds rather fantastic and easy to trace. There is always a trail to follow with internet sales. Large sales in the range of $20k on the internet are not done with cash. What is so expensive besides the doctors that can't be covered with regular team expenses? Even those doctors are straight-up paid anyhow. Just doesn't make sense.

 

[scribe]

The WSJ interview with the journalist who wrote the story says that the online article IS the article. I am starting to think thehog is the most secret of Armstrong fanboys. All he does is write stuff that casts doubt on anyone else making statements about Mr Armstrong. I think we have a double agent here.

He just might be the 'hog'

 

[etymology]

i hope the print article is both more extensive and detailed. i agree with ttf that the online article is "weak sauce" and, as mentioned by another cliniquesta, the allegations of selling bikes for acquiring doping cash could weaken the fed's case for fraud.

what i find most curious is the timing of the wall street journal's printing of this story. i understand saturday *is* the start of the tdf. it is also the saturday of a three day weekend here in the us. worse, the july 4th three day weekend, which means baseball, nascar's firecracker 400 (now the coke zero 400), backyard bbq'a, camping...in other words, minimum news exposure.

in my opinion, placing this article in its weekend edition significantly reduces the impact it *could* (and should) have in the u.s. of a were it released in a weekday edition. it is akin to the practice the u.s. government releasing bad economic or political news late friday afternoon: there is a reason why the government announces "xx number of banks were closed by the feds" or "so and so resigned to persue other interests" late friday afternoon...a the day before a major holiday - it lessens the exposure of the news, and unfortunately, when non-holiday or weekend life resumes, three news cycles have come and gone.

i am no fan of ruppert murcdoch. my head hurst when i think "how and why did the feds allow him to amass the publishing/media empire he has acquired?" one thing is for sure: love him or hate him, he ain't no dummy.

pure speculation: given murdoch's political leanings, it would not surprise me if this is spun as some sort of preemptive right wing attack on "mr. armstrong's" political aspiriations.

maybe even a right wing attack on yellow wristbands, cancer research and cancer "awareness."

but what i ***REALLY*** hope - delusional as that hope may be - is that this year's tdf has a tenth of the excitement and actual racing of this year's giro.

apologies in advance should things i wanted to highlight appear garbled or as code. this being my first post aside, i am an admitted technoneandertal. just wanted to add my 2,000 verbose cents to the discussion.:

 

[scribe]

Me too. There are so many details that could have been followed up. Not worth such a long thread. At least we got this great quote from Tim Henman... "Mr. Armstrong had no contact with strippers or cocaine."

Don't they test for Coke? Or is there a masking agent for that?

 

[Anonymous]

is this meant to be some kind of bizarre joke?

now THAT is why i use opera!

 

[luckyboy]

Yay Opera

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said about the article. Just hope all this comes together somehow. It's feeling less likely that the Dark Lord's gonna be brought down by this.

 

[stephens]

In some ways I share your disappointment with the article, but at the same time there were some interesting new facts/allegations. First, we now have 3 different riders talking about the systematic doping program at USPS (excluding Floyd). Now my personal like would be to know their identity, but given that this is now the subject of a federal investigation, I can understand their desire/need for anonymity. Second, we know how the transfusions worked at the Tour and who administered them (doctors). Third, we know how they disposed of the blood bags (cut them up and flushed down the toilet). Fourth, we know how it was funded (sale of Trek bikes, which Trek's counsel confirms).

To be accurate, we don't "know" these things: we just know that Landis claims this is the way things worked. In the end, those two things may end up being the same, but it's a little early to make that jump.

 

[Anonymous]

Based on that article, Phil, Paul, and Bob will have a field day beating on Landis tomorrow. They will talk about "serious allegations" and then rip Floyd up. I am not sure I can listen to it...in fact, I am positive I can't.

 

[Anonymous]

Based on that article, Phil, Paul, and Bob will have a field day beating on Landis tomorrow. They will talk about "serious allegations" and then rip Floyd up. I am not sure I can listen to it...in fact, I am positive I can't.

Eurosport feeds, they will rip into him plenty, and then put planet lance on in the adverts by way of irony

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So - the second hand bikes.

I posted it here a few weeks back - anyone remember who was selling second hand USPS bikes??

1st prize: A cool bottle of Michelob Ultra.
2nd prize: A years supply of Michelob Ultra

 

[Publicus]

To be accurate, we don't "know" these things: we just know that Landis claims this is the way things worked. In the end, those two things may end up being the same, but it's a little early to make that jump.

Fair enough. A couple of the points are just Landis' allegations, but I think the first point regarding doping on the team, gives his allegations some credibility they were lacking. Of course, that's just my opinion. I could certainly see someone being skeptical about the claims.

But again, fair point. There is much that is not corroborated.

 

[Kennf1]

So - the second hand bikes.

I posted it here a few weeks back - anyone remember who was selling second hand USPS bikes??

1st prize: A cool bottle of Michelob Ultra.
2nd prize: A years supply of Michelob Ultra

My first choice would be Gerlach.
Second choice, Jemison.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

More like:

Grand Prize: You never have to drink Michelob Ultra.

 

[Kennf1]

More like:

Grand Prize: You never have to drink Michelob Ultra.

You can't live life to the ultra if you don't drink the ultra.

 

[Cal_Joe]

With a bit of hindsight, if the WSJ is really in a fierce bit of competition with the NY Times regarding Flandis 2.0 and they had a blockbuster article, it probably would have been in one of last week's regular editions, rather than the weekend grab bag.

But to speculate (wow!), it may have been a different article at some point in time and changed to the point where it was only fit for the weekend funnies.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

My first choice would be Gerlach.
Second choice, Jemison.

Cant confirm that the above have not - but I posted a certain member of a well known family involved in Cycling was selling a USPS team issue bike on ebay.....

At the moment your claiming 3rd prize: A job as an offical taster for Michelob Ultra.

 

[Cobber]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html?KEYWORDS=floyd+landis

Almost afraid to read it...

Thanks for the link!

Not much new for those of us that regularly read "The Clinic", but I think this will be quite an eye opener for the general public. A lot of people are aware of doping in cycling, but not aware of a first hand account of exactly what goes on and how.

As far as excluding riders implicated in this, I agree with Cobblestones that riders have been excluded for less. I seem to remember that the ASO at one time stated that any rider implicated or accused of riding would be disinvited. Surely this qualifies! However, I kind of want Armstrong to ride so I can (a) see him fail miserably and (b) see him get arrested by the French police. Hopefully Lemond knows of something that is not public in this regard.

Ahhhh... it's July, and once again the smell of drama is in the air!

 

[Ferminal]

Nice article to learn a bit more about Floyd.

The USPS information was basically just fleshed out in detail from the e-mails.

What's the chances of "The Shack" riding Trek's next year?

 

[BroDeal]

More like:

Grand Prize: You never have to drink Michelob Ultra.

It is also known as Chickelob Ultra.

 

[luckyboy]

Cant confirm that the above have not - but I posted a certain member of a well known family involved in Cycling was selling a USPS team issue bike on ebay.....

At the moment your claiming 3rd prize: A job as an offical taster for Michelob Ultra.

Was it Darach?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Is it Darach?

I think it deserves its own thread - here or in the General section?