The Article: WSJ - reopened!

[Anonymous]

ok.. who the F*** are you and what have you done with TFF?

You made me laugh!

Anyway, I said IF I were objective. I believe every word of the article. I just don't know if I would if I knew as little about pro cycling as do most Lance fans.

 

[Big GMaC]

More of an article about Floyd really. If thats all the gear Floyd did to get those results he was a Bad *** himself. I admire the guy even more.

Was a little bit of a let down in some ways, strippers? big deal. The other stuff about the transfusions was quite insightful but nothing more than what we knew anyway. I really thought there might be some better corroboration about what Floyd had said.

Might have more impact to the mainstream cycle fans and general public, especially with all the photos in larger sizes in the hard copy form.

Will be interesting to see how many other media outlets run with this.

But no pannier photos.

Does anyone on the inside of the story know about those?

 

[diego maradona]

ok.. who the F*** are you and what have you done with TFF?

I think he hyped himself up too much and was expecting loads of new stuff and tabloid stuff with hookers saying they gave LA blow jobs.

It's no wonder he's like Floyd Landis because they seem similar - either loving life or totally angry and despairing. They both don't like others to get away with things they would love to get away with themselves. It's the bipoplar personality type.

 

[Anonymous]

Much better.

The full article doesn't happen to come out on Sept 5th by chance?

 

[this_is_edie]

So is the rider that admitted doping Frankie Andreu?

 

[Anonymous]

So is the rider that admitted doping Frankie Andreu?

I certainly hope he is not the one to whom they refer. If so, the weakness of the article goes into the realm of overcooked spaghetti.

 

[Big GMaC]

The full article doesn't happen to come out on Sept 5th by chance?

What is this September 5 stuff? Am I missing something very obvious?

 

[Anonymous]

So is the rider that admitted doping Frankie Andreu?

I doubt it, they would have named him if so, Frankie doesnt really have anything to hide regarding his doping history. Im sure betsy will confirm if he spoke to the wsj.

Im guessing three former postal riders (obviously), 2 in this years tour, 1 more possibly retired is the one thats admitted doping so far as he is assumedly beyond reproach now.

We know its not Hincapie or Levi, which leaves a pretty damn short list. Might even be two garmin riders, JV and JB/LA have clearly fallen out. For lance to block JV on twitter smacks of childish desperation.

 

[kurtinsc]

While I believe 90%+ of what was in that article (pretty much everything except where Floyd is trying to cover his own behind), I don't see this as being anything that will keep Lance from riding tomorrow.

It could hurt his image. It might present some problems for him down the road. But when asked about it tomorrow, he'll say "This is just a repeat of what Floyd has already said. He's a proven liar, there's no reason to give his claims any credence. They aren't worth a response."

If asked about the three other postal riders, he'll say: "How can I respond? There was no real claim, evidence or statement to talk about in the article."


If anything, the article also seems to dispute the idea that postal was using government funds for doping. Apparently, thy were using funds gained from selling equipment provided by sponsors.


Long term, this could be bad for Armstrong... but it won't change anything for the next 3 weeks.

 

[Anonymous]

What is this September 5 stuff? Am I missing something very obvious?

The Hog has a history of making proclamations regarding things that never happen. Last year, after the Tour, he kept telling us that Contador was going to announce his new team on September 5th. It was big, big, inside stuff kind of talk. Sept 5th came and went, and well, you know what happened even if you didn't know that story. That is why anything he writes must be taken as a sure sign what ever he proclaims will happen will never happen. It isn't just that instance either. He does it all of the time.

 

[Publicus]

The great majority of the article is Landis stories. Regardless of whether I believe them, there is little to me that would sway me if I were objective about the subject. Most people reading are either weighted to the side of the Armstrong myth, and anyone in the middle could easily say, "well, we have one side of the story...what else?" and be right.

Great, 3 unnamed riders admit doping at USPS. That is far from a staggering revelation. Bikes being sold for cash to buy drugs...says Landis. Again, I believe him, but if I were an attorney for Mr Armstrong, I would be laughing right now at THIS article. Maybe not Novitsky, but THAT? I stand behind my assessment, it was a weak article.

In some ways I share your disappointment with the article, but at the same time there were some interesting new facts/allegations. First, we now have 3 different riders talking about the systematic doping program at USPS (excluding Floyd). Now my personal like would be to know their identity, but given that this is now the subject of a federal investigation, I can understand their desire/need for anonymity. Second, we know how the transfusions worked at the Tour and who administered them (doctors). Third, we know how they disposed of the blood bags (cut them up and flushed down the toilet). Fourth, we know how it was funded (sale of Trek bikes, which Trek's counsel confirms).

Lance is not going to be kicked out of the Tour, but I expect that he, Radio Shack's team bus, and hotels will be closely scrutinized. In ways that they've never been scrutinized before.

 

[LastRide]

The full article doesn't happen to come out on Sept 5th by chance?

The rest is coming out on Bastille Day.

 

[Big GMaC]

The Hog has a history of making proclamations regarding things that never happen. Last year, after the Tour, he kept telling us that Contador was going to announce his new team on September 5th. It was big, big, inside stuff kind of talk. Sept 5th came and went, and well, you know what happened even if you didn't know that story. That is why anything he writes must be taken as a sure sign what ever he proclaims will happen will never happen. It isn't just that instance either. He does it all of the time.

Right. I knew all that, except the precise relevance of the 5th. As I was just reading and not posting then it probably passed me by.

 

[this_is_edie]

I doubt it, they would have named him if so, Frankie doesnt really have anything to hide regarding his doping history. Im sure betsy will confirm if he spoke to the wsj.

Im guessing three former postal riders (obviously), 2 in this years tour, 1 more possibly retired is the one thats admitted doping so far as he is assumedly beyond reproach now.

We know its not Hincapie or Levi, which leaves a pretty damn short list. Might even be two garmin riders, JV and JB/LA have clearly fallen out. For lance to block JV on twitter smacks of childish desperation.

good point. I sure hope it was not Andreu

 

[Anonymous]

In some ways I share your disappointment with the article, but at the same time there were some interesting new facts/allegations. First, we now have 3 different riders talking about the systematic doping program at USPS (excluding Floyd). Now my personal like would be to know their identity, but given that this is now the subject of a federal investigation, I can understand their desire/need for anonymity. Second, we know how the transfusions worked at the Tour and who administered them (doctors). Third, we know how they disposed of the blood bags (cut them up and flushed down the toilet). Fourth, we know how it was funded (sale of Trek bikes, which Trek's counsel confirms).

Lance is not going to be kicked out of the Tour, but I expect that he, Radio Shack's team bus, and hotels will be closely scrutinized. In ways that they've never been scrutinized before.

But they didn't say "systematic." They just said there was doping while they were on the team. Noting saying that The Hog was involved. Nothing saying they too were laying on the table when Armstrong was in the room. Just a vague reference to doping during their time at USPS, and not even that they partook with the exception of one.

As for the other stuff, that is still all information from a convicted doping cheat, (I am speaking from the position of someone punching holes in the story, not personal opinion of the man) and far from anything that is a smoking gun.

 

[buckwheat]

Prelude.

Print article gets much better.

How much more is there?

 

[kurtinsc]

One other thing... here's the section about the 3 other riders:

"Three other former U.S. Postal riders told the Journal in interviews that there was doping on the team during the time Mr. Armstrong was its lead rider, and one of them admitted that he himself had doped."

It doesn't say anything about seeing Armstrong dope, or that it was an organized doping program. It just says that there was "doping on the team at the time mr. Armstrong was the lead rider".


I really don't see that as a silver bullet.

Rider 1: Yeah, I doped in 2000.

Rider 2: Yeah, I know rider 1 doped in 2000.

Rider 3. yeah, I know rider 1 doped in 2000.


Correct me if I'm wrong... but that would fit what the article said right? I'm not saying that's actually what was said... but the wording there was very careful.

 

[Publicus]

But they didn't say "systematic." They just said there was doping while they were on the team. Noting saying that The Hog was involved. Nothing saying they too were laying on the table when Armstrong was in the room. Just a vague reference to doping during their time at USPS, and not even that they partook with the exception of one.

As for the other stuff, that is still all information from a convicted doping cheat, (I am speaking from the position of someone punching holes in the story, not personal opinion of the man) and far from anything that is a smoking gun.

Fair point. No smoking gun here. Lots of threads though. And it gives WADA/AFLD with more information about how the alleged doping scheme worked.

 

[Anonymous]

Fair point. No smoking gun here. Lots of threads though. And it gives WADA/AFLD with more information about how the alleged doping scheme worked.

start checking the sewers for chopped up blood bags

 

[kurtinsc]

Fair point. No smoking gun here. Lots of threads though. And it gives WADA/AFLD with more information about how the alleged doping scheme worked.

I wonder who was fired for not cutting up the blood bags and flushing them last year.

 

[Publicus]

One other thing... here's the section about the 3 other riders:

"Three other former U.S. Postal riders told the Journal in interviews that there was doping on the team during the time Mr. Armstrong was its lead rider, and one of them admitted that he himself had doped."

It doesn't say anything about seeing Armstrong dope, or that it was an organized doping program. It just says that there was "doping on the team at the time mr. Armstrong was the lead rider".


I really don't see that as a silver bullet.

Rider 1: Yeah, I doped in 2000.

Rider 2: Yeah, I know rider 1 doped in 2000.

Rider 3. yeah, I know rider 1 doped in 2000.


Correct me if I'm wrong... but that would fit what the article said right? I'm not saying that's actually what was said... but the wording there was very careful.

The lawyer in me thinks this section was heavily worked over by the Feds. Basic corroboration of doping within the team, but no specifics that might help the targets.

 

[Publicus]

I wonder who was fired for not cutting up the blood bags and flushing them last year.

No one is my guess. You keep that person real close and real happy.

 

[Anonymous]

Right. I knew all that, except the precise relevance of the 5th. As I was just reading and not posting then it probably passed me by.

The WSJ interview with the journalist who wrote the story says that the online article IS the article. I am starting to think thehog is the most secret of Armstrong fanboys. All he does is write stuff that casts doubt on anyone else making statements about Mr Armstrong. I think we have a double agent here.

 

[jonny testaronny]

Waitin' for the print edition

"Three former US Postal riders" were quoted in the WSJ piece giving something other than denials. Four, actually, but I'm guessing Vaughters is not one of those confirming team doping. I had hoped they'd found someone more credible than:
Chad Gerlach--monster crit rider, but will be portrayed as a crackhead.
David Clinger--has been honest about USPS doping in the past (eg, to Decanio), but will be portrayed as mentally unstable.
Benoit Joachim--will be portrayed as a nobody, who himself dodged sanctions for a positive test only because of a technicality.

I really hope the print story has better stuff than their testimony. Better yet, documentation--maybe a contemporary press source reporting on the USPS bus "breakdown"? I'll be getting a copy as soon as I can, anyways....

 

[kurtinsc]

start checking the sewers for chopped up blood bags

This year they'll have a more creative way to dispose of them. Have a mechanic eat them? Well I guess they'd still end up in the sewers then. Burn them? Hydrochloric acid? Sneak into the astana hotel and flush them down THEIR toilets?