The Better Irish Cousin

[SHAD0W93]

Who do you think is the better rider N. Roche or D. Martin? Roche has the better GC placing while Martin has more wins. Who do you think will have a better 2012 season and than who will have the better career? I personally think Martin will have a better season while Roche will have the better career.

 

[greenedge]

I think Roche has talent but he competes in too many races. He is consistent though. However Dan Martin has a great kick up a hill, showed at GDL that he could win a classic and he's won a GT stage. That is all. I hope Roche can still go well in future but Martin is in my view just that much better.

 

[Jakob747]

For me, it's not even close. Dan Martin by a country-mile.

D. Martin is one of the most talented punchy-climbers around and I am convinced he turns into (If not one already) a genuinely world-beater during his hopefully long career. I also admire a lot the way he races on pure grit and instinct, I mean the guy animated all (bar-one!) of the mountain stages in this year's Vuelta.

I sometimes even wish he would race a tad bit more conservative at times. I think it would benefit him more. I mean for example on this year's Angliru stage, he went away on El Cordal in what I assume was a move to be optimal positioned before the final-climb. Then, on the Angliru he attacks yet again right after the 22% Les Cabanes section and is followed by Benat Intxausti who quickly gets throw off though. Then, Igor Anton makes his move, but it's not until Cobo turns on the turbo and really puts down the hammer, D. Martin starts to struggle a little. Yet, he still finishes 11th on the stage only 20secs shy of Brad Wiggins in 5th spot.

Two stages later he is on at it again on Pena Cabarga. It's as Vaughters said, most times with Dan either he wins or he finishes whatever (Secondary spots means nothing to him)!! This year he even put on a few kilograms and it hasn't affected his climbing form what-so ever in fact it's only managed to make him an even punchier competitor.

If he gets his allergy problems under control he will be a factor pretty much throughout the entire calendar-year. Needless to say I am a keen admirer of Dan Martin.

Nic Roche is a good bike-rider, but in this duel he is simple outclassed in my opinion.

Dan Martin to have a better 2012 and a (way) better career.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

For me, it's not even close. Dan Martin by a

quoted for truth

 

[Eric8-A]

Dan has a mush shorter career, but a long one. And by what he has, it looks like he's only going to get much better. Better even than Roche. The thing I wonder is if he's ever going to try and better his time trialing so he can be much more competitive in grand tours, or just end up being a rider like Purito. Phenomenal climber but suckish in the time trial.

 

[Swabian Lass]

Much as I like Nicolas Roche, I'm not sure why you're even asking this question. Dan Martin by some way. He's a punchy climber who rides an attacking race and animates pretty much any race he's in. Great to watch. I hope that he can get help with his allergy problems and become competitive in the spring. I think that he can do well then.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Dan Martin by far, even in the half year he can compete he does better then Roche all over the year. If he gets his allergies out of the way he can end up VERY high in the WT ranking. Think he would be a mayor man for classics like AGR, FW and LBL.

 

[just some guy]

Dan by far . Roche is still working out what type of rider he is.

Son of Stephen GT Leader @ AG2R - what he should do is ride for a team and a 2 level leader and stage hunter be much better for his career

 

[Eric8-A]

Dan got a surgery prior to the beginning of this season that he hoped would improve his performace. He said he really couldn't perform to the level he wanted to in the early part (spring, and up to like May or something) because of high pollen levels. But I think that surgery did some slight improvement this year. Hopefully it makes him a better rider for 2012.

 

[Ruudz0r]

He also tried something prior to 2010, and he is trying something again this year with some Dutch doctor (think it is in the interview on velonation). But all he tried hasnt been to effective yet but hopefully it is this year.

If not I hope the pollen level will not be as high next year as it was this year he still had difficulties with them in June during the Dauphine (not all stages).

 

[gilbertador]

Its sad reading this thread becaause it reminds you how good Dan Martin would be without allergies, Is there any way he can concievably cure the problem? Could he ever ride at 100% in the classics? He would be a serious favorite like J Rod if he can sort it out

5th in the Vuelta to be as good as Roche gets....

 

[hrotha]

I think people tend to underestimate Roche because he had a horrible season this year. I agree he needs to focus on what he's better at and forget about GT GCs though.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

Martin definitely. Rather than him focus on overall GT placing, I would love to see him target the KOM competition's, and then at races like the Giro, the GC will take care of itself. If he gains a bit more tactical nous, then I think he will become a very dangerous rider.

 

[hatcher]

It's definitely Dan as of now.

Nico still seems unsure about the type of rider he is. On his best 3 weeks he can, imo, minor top 10 a decent GT, but certainly coming up he showed plenty of potential as a punchy one-day rider. I'd say he's got as much of a kick (on the flat) from a small group as Dan has.

 

[Sophistic]

If Roche would lose 3-4kg, there would be a good fight, but as it is now:Martin

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Well, so far, Martin has clearly shown more. He wins a lot of races. He's an excellent climber, has a lot of punch over hills, and has a very good sprint from a select group. If you effectively miss half the season and still finish in the WT top ten, you are pretty good. Also, he's insanely attacking, which may not be the best way to maximise your palmares but is certainly the best way to be popular with the fans.

He has two very big problems. His time trial is poor and, as mentioned above, he has to date been rendered uncompetitive in what should be the part of the season most suited to him (Ardennes, on the one day side of things, or the Giro out of the GTs). We don't know if he will be able to address either of those issues. If he becomes competent in the TT, then he's a legitimate threat in GTs. If he doesn't, then he isn't. As for the allergies, it must be enormously frustrating to come second in Lombardia but know that your nasal passages will likely be swollen shut at LBL.

However, I think that the timing of the question is a bit unfair to Roche, as he's coming off a very disappointing and crash-disrupted season, where he was both racing all year long and never able to peak properly. He did pick up a decent win at the end of the season. He is a little less ropey in the TT and he has better GT GC finishes to date. I actually think that he has a lot of talent, but tend to concur with the people above who have been saying that riding for minor places on GC isn't the best use of that talent. What's more, it tends to stifle his attacking instincts. Unfortunately, the economics of present day cycling seem to push talented riders towards going all out for that coveted 8th place in a GT.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Roche to have a better spring and summer, Martin the better autumn. This is based on martin having a decent spring and roche having learnt to pick his battles. Winter is the most optimisitc of months, dont you think?

 

[Tank Engine]

Roche had an unlucky year with crashes. He's generally very consistent, due to his all round ability. I think he'd be better off going for stage victories and should do well in hilly classics (especially San Sebastian). Martin is not such an all rounder, but is clearly a better climber, good on the long climbs and explosive on the shorter climbs. As a result, he'll get more wins than Roche. I'm expecting Roche to have a better year in 2012, but Martin will still be ranked higher. Martin has yet to peak, while Roche is at his peak (but might improve his results by focusing more on particular races).

 

[SHAD0W93]

Much as I like Nicolas Roche, I'm not sure why you're even asking this question. Dan Martin by some way. He's a punchy climber who rides an attacking race and animates pretty much any race he's in. Great to watch. I hope that he can get help with his allergy problems and become competitive in the spring. I think that he can do well then.

Since I wanted to see everyone's opinion on it and thought that it would not be such a landslide for Martin.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Its sad reading this thread becaause it reminds you how good Dan Martin would be without allergies, Is there any way he can concievably cure the problem? Could he ever ride at 100% in the classics? He would be a serious favorite like J Rod if he can sort it out

5th in the Vuelta to be as good as Roche gets....[/QUOTE]

I think he could do better if he planned to peak for it and did not race the tour. He could maybe win it if that happened.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

It is a flaw that will10 gets to vote for all four categories,no?

 

[SHAD0W93]

It is a flaw that will10 gets to vote for all four categories,no?

I don't know why he voted for everything and I said only pick 2 as max.

 

[maltiv]

If Roche would lose 3-4kg, there would be a good fight, but as it is now:Martin

Problem is, there is no way Roche can lose that much weight. He's just not a natural climber. Yet he can't really TT either, which a rider like him has to be able to if he is to get some decent results.

Weirdly, it seems like at the same time as Dan Martin has become a better climber than Roche, he has also become the better sprinter, so there's really no competition.

 

[ferryman]

I really like both of these guys but have voted for Dan x 2. I genuinely think he is going to be at the top level very soon.

 

[greenedge]

If not I hope the pollen level will not be as high next year as it was this year he still had difficulties with them in June during the Dauphine (not all stages).

Evans did as well.

Dan Martin will still be a good contender for most races. He did try race F-W/ LBL this year and would have if not for crashing.