The Better Irish Cousin

[Esroh the Hoss]

In all of the interviews Nico has done re his book in Irish media he has been saying that he is changing direction in 2012 away from GC.

 

[scullster46]

That's good, he really never struck me as a gc rider, he's just above average on all counts. He has a much better shot at winning classics.

 

[El Pistolero]

That's good, he really never struck me as a gc rider, he's just above average on all counts. He has a much better shot at winning classics.

You don't win classics when being "just above average".

 

[scullster46]

You don't win classics when being "just above average".

I didn't say that he would win, just that he had a better shot at winning them than winning a GT

 

[Richeypen]

You don't win classics when being "just above average".

Pretty much how I would describe Zaugg.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

You don't win classics when being "just above average".

No, but to be fair, neither Roche nor Martin are "just above average". Both are very talented, with Martin seeming to be the actual top tier guy.

 

[El Pistolero]

No, but to be fair, neither Roche nor Martin are "just above average". Both are very talented, with Martin seeming to be the actual top tier guy.

Pfft, Nicolas Roche is pretty average in the classics if you ask me. Don't find Martin a top tier guy either, but he has his allergy problems, so hasn't been able to show what he's worth in the spring classics yet.

I don't really care for the results at Lombardia this year. The competition was weaker compared to other years. Michele Scarponi was sick, Gilbert out of shape, Nibali being foolish like usual, no Davide Rebellin, no Schlecks, no Kolobnev, no Vinokourov, Samuel Sanchez totally out of shape because he went to Beijing, no Vanendert, no Kreuziger, etc

 

[sublimit]

Problem is, there is no way Roche can lose that much weight. He's just not a natural climber. Yet he can't really TT either, which a rider like him has to be able to if he is to get some decent results.

Weirdly, it seems like at the same time as Dan Martin has become a better climber than Roche, he has also become the better sprinter, so there's really no competition.

Roche used to be able get amongst the top sprinters in a bunch gallop a couple years ago without disgracing himself, but clearly after a mountain finish or tough hilly race Martin is better.

I agree he needs to improve his TT. The stage he won in Beijing will help him anyway - getting away with Froome And Deignan on the climb and toasting them in the sprint after the descent will help his confidence.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Sure won't it be great supporting the two lads through it all next season. Met them both in the summer in scotstown n will be in clonmel come end of june. Nico definitely checked out my [now] wife's decolletage, she insists. So he wasnt lookin at my cinelli tshirt then?!

 

[Richeypen]

I don't really care for the results at Lombardia this year. The competition was weaker compared to other years. Michele Scarponi was sick, Gilbert out of shape, Nibali being foolish like usual, no Davide Rebellin, no Schlecks, no Kolobnev, no Vinokourov, Samuel Sanchez totally out of shape because he went to Beijing, no Vanendert, no Kreuziger, etc

So what you meant to say was:
You don't win classics when being "just above average" (except for the ones that you do, but they don't count).

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Yeah, yer man [Pist] mentions a collection of positives balanced with ur obligatory sick/injured/withdrawn and concludes a weak field. Weak argument more like

 

[hfer07]

Currently D Martin has been way more successful that Nicholas-and yet I foresee a good breakthrough for him(NR) in years to come-he might need to swap teams to get more freedom, since TeamGadret is all over the place on the AG2R camp...

 

[El Pistolero]

So what you meant to say was:
You don't win classics when being "just above average" (except for the ones that you do, but they don't count).

It would still count if it wasn't for the small fact that Lombardia is changing dates and is now a week after the Worlds which means Zaugg will barely make it into the top 10 next year if he is indeed as you say just above average(because let's be honest, he might actually proof to be the real deal next year)

Though Grand Tours have a fair share of "just above average" winners as well, so why would he stop focusing on GTs then? Flukes happen, so what.

Nicolas Roche has about as much chance of winning a Monument as he has a chance of winning the Vuelta. Virtually zero.

 

[scullster46]

It would still count if it wasn't for the small fact that Lombardia is changing dates and is now a week after the Worlds which means Zaugg will barely make it into the top 10 next year if he is indeed as you say just above average(because let's be honest, he might actually proof to be the real deal next year)

Though Grand Tours have a fair share of "just above average" winners as well, so why would he stop focusing on GTs then? Flukes happen, so what.

Nicolas Roche has about as much chance of winning a Monument as he has a chance of winning the Vuelta. Virtually zero.

But flukes and tactical wins are much more likely to happen on a single given day, rather than over 21 days, where really the most important factor is form. That was plainly evident throughout this year. Roche isn't good enough to create large gaps and make up time in any areas in GTs, he always will be trying to minimize time losses. However he is good enough to be up there in classics and if he picks the right moves, then he could easily win.

 

[Parrulo]

I think he could do better if he planned to peak for it and did not race the tour. He could maybe win it if that happened.

wow thats a foolish comment . . . he finished 7th 5 minutes behind the winner who happens to also have 2 giro podiums under his belt, in normal conditions roche will never finish a GT ahead nibali( non normal conditions would be a crash or massive illness which neither had at that vuelta)

dan martin is much much more talented then roche if he gets his allergies sorted out he can become a real player for the ardennes and even the giro which i think suits him better then the tour or the vuelta

 

[El Pistolero]

But flukes and tactical wins are much more likely to happen on a single given day, rather than over 21 days, where really the most important factor is form. That was plainly evident throughout this year. Roche isn't good enough to create large gaps and make up time in any areas in GTs, he always will be trying to minimize time losses. However he is good enough to be up there in classics and if he picks the right moves, then he could easily win.

What classic? I've never seen him up there in the classics picking the right moves and even winning easily. LOL.

 

[SHAD0W93]

wow thats a foolish comment . . . he finished 7th 5 minutes behind the winner who happens to also have 2 giro podiums under his belt, in normal conditions roche will never finish a GT ahead nibali( non normal conditions would be a crash or massive illness which neither had at that vuelta)

dan martin is much much more talented then roche if he gets his allergies sorted out he can become a real player for the ardennes and even the giro which i think suits him better then the tour or the vuelta

7th after racing the tour when the only other people that did that (in top 10)are Frank, Purito, Sastre, and LL Sanchez. He beat the 2 latter even though Sastre did ride all 3. I said if he rides it with the mind to win without ridding the tour and peaking he could maybe win.

I think they are both very and equally talented. But that is just my opinion and if it is foolish than so be it.

 

[scullster46]

What classic? I've never seen him up there in the classics picking the right moves and even winning easily. LOL.

easily winning does not mean winning easily. I just meant that its not out of the realm of possibilities for him to win a classic, whereas it really isn't feasible to see him winning or even podiuming a GT

 

[El Pistolero]

easily winning does not mean winning easily. I just meant that its not out of the realm of possibilities for him to win a classic, whereas it really isn't feasible to see him winning or even podiuming a GT

He's top tenned a Vuelta before, never a classic

 

[The Hitch]

I hate to say it as I like Nicky but I think he is overrated by some. The thread last year where most people thought he was the best rider on AG2R shows this.

 

[Tank Engine]

He's top tenned a Vuelta before, never a classic

Does this mean that now we're going to start discussing whether San Sebastian is a classic? (8th last year)

 

[hrotha]

I hate to say it as I like Nicky but I think he is overrated by some. The thread last year where most people thought he was the best rider on AG2R shows this.

A year ago there was simply no objective reason to put Gadret above him. Right now, there's a case for it, but I'd still put Roche ahead.

 

[Richeypen]

A year ago there was simply no objective reason to put Gadret above him. Right now, there's a case for it, but I'd still put Roche ahead.

Gadret doesn't ride for Ag2R. He just happens to turn up to some of the same races as they do wearing the same jersey.

 

[El Pistolero]

AG2R got to be the most invisible world tour team out there... I barely saw them this season. I saw Gadret at the Giro and that's the last time I ever saw the jersey. I wish I was using a hyperbole, but I'm not.

 

[maltiv]

AG2R got to be the most invisible world tour team out there... I barely saw them this season. I saw Gadret at the Giro and that's the last time I ever saw the jersey. I wish I was using a hyperbole, but I'm not.

You didn't watch the first couple of MTF's in the TDF? At times they had by far the greatest amount of cyclists in the lead group. I mean when Roche was dropped on Luz'Ardiden he had 2 teammates pacing him whilst Peraud was still in the lead group of about 10...Peraud who also finished in the top 10 of the TDF.