Teams & Riders The Big 6

[KZD]

Pogacar: Can win Monuments, Grand tours, stage races and world championships

Evenepoele: Can win Monuments, Grand tours, World championships, stage races

Roglic: Can win monuments, Grand tours, stage races

Vinegaaard: Can dominate Grand tours and stage races

Van Der Poel: Can win Monuments and world championships. Best monument racer in the world

WVA:????? . Is good at getting in the break at le TDF???

I agree overall but let's not forget Van Aert and Roglič have both a single monument win.

Still Van Aert's inability to win really big races makes him sixth on the list while Pogačar comes first and Remco second due to their bigger versatility.

 

[Berniece]

Van Aert and Van der Poel dont race GT GCs.

So then there were 3.

They go for stage wins during GT's and are peaking to those races.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Remco - versatile? When. He has a big engine, and that's it. Stage races and certain one day races is not versatile to me. If he can challenge on the cobbles/Strada I'll change my mind.

 

[Red Rick]

They go for stage wins during GT's and are peaking to those races.

How is winning stages different from classics? How is it any versatility in amd of its own?

 

[Nick2413]

I think the fact that we’re debating whether it’s actually the big 6 or the big 2/3/4 underscores how lopsided the competition is right now. I’d prefer to see some more 2nd tier winners and riders getting into the final small group to the finale. And tactics will not change that.

 

[theyoungest]

Remco - versatile? When. He has a big engine, and that's it. Stage races and certain one day races is not versatile to me. If he can challenge on the cobbles/Strada I'll change my mind.

I'm sure he could, if he's gained some experience. Remember he used to be a terrible descender and now he's fairly adequate. Riding on cobbles is a similar skill that can be learned quite quickly if you have the talent. Look at Pogacar.

I think if you put Roglic in Strade or the Ronde he'd be quite good as well, if he doesn't crash.

 

[Berniece]

How is winning stages different from classics? How is it any versatility in amd of its own?

Because in classics you don't have to take pure GT riders into account who also go for those stages during a GT

 

[KZD]

Remco - versatile? When. He has a big engine, and that's it. Stage races and certain one day races is not versatile to me. If he can challenge on the cobbles/Strada I'll change my mind.

Remco is one of the best classics riders in the world, one of the best time trialists and one of the best climbers. I don't know about you but in my book this makes him pretty versatile not as much as Pogačar but still not too far from him.

 

[hayneplane]

What does the list mean? What's the criteria to be in that list?

Is it: reminds us of Merckx? Then it's only a Big 2.
Is it: if any of those are in the race, and the race somewhat suits them, they'll easily win (or gift it) - or fight it out with the other 5? Then it really is a big 6.

In my view it was about the latter. If it’s a race they are capable of winning I.E at least a top 3 favourite against the rest of the world.

Yes there are different layers of versatility in that Pog is number 1 for all terrain, Remco has only a cobbles question mark, Roglic has had issues with fading in monuments though did win 1 LBL.

Vingegaard has no real 1 day pedigree but right now is the top rated mountain goat and Wout can maybe win a week long stage race without the other bigs if he targets the GC whereas MVDP is outstanding in the monuments but weak on longer climbs and can’t do GC.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The penetration of GC cyclists, the ones you find finishing ahead on top of mountains, into classics, that is likely happening due to on how uniformly racing has become today. Strong team drilling it through the duration of the race/stage, for a cyclist that can make a difference on the slightest of slope, to win. Breakaway with no real chance of succeeding. More traditional types of cyclists, for such race type, long gone before the finish line. But there is another "problem" involved. General public just loves such things. A cyclist that can win PR and Tour in a grand fashion. Hence the reality is for most of the interested public this is the end goal. On how it should be. But the reality is also that this is kinda stupid. To have at best 3 cyclists that will win all races and stages in the season. And when they rarely face each other for a crash to prevent it unfold.

 

[Big Doopie]

I think the fact that we’re debating whether it’s actually the big 6 or the big 2/3/4 underscores how lopsided the competition is right now. I’d prefer to see some more 2nd tier winners and riders getting into the final small group to the finale. And tactics will not change that.

I disagree with this emotion. We have 6 amazing riders able to ride exploits on various terrains. I am so glad that we no longer have to superficially hold up second tier riders as being more than what they are. General equality leads to stunningly boring racing. But give me two superb racers who only know winning and we have the possibility of an historic race!

 

[Blanco]

Last season:
1.Evenepoel
2.Pogacar
3.Vingegaard
4.Van Aert
5.Van Der Poel
6.Roglic

Current season:
1.Pogacar
2.Van Der Poel
3.Evenepoel
4.Roglic
5.Van Aert
6.Vingegaard

 

[CyclistAbi]

Last season:
1.Evenepoel
2.Pogacar
3.Vingegaard
4.Van Aert
5.Van Der Poel
6.Roglic

Current season:
1.Pogacar
2.Van Der Poel
3.Evenepoel
4.Roglic
5.Van Aert
6.Vingegaard

C'mon it's the same bunch. You are just mixing them differently.

P.S. I do like on how Rogla is climbing this season, though.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Demi Vollering has raced eight times this year. All spring classic's or monuments.
Five wins, two seconds and a season opener seventeenth.

 

[houtdffan]

The penetration of GC cyclists, the ones you find finishing ahead on top of mountains, into classics, that is likely happening due to on how uniformly racing has become today. Strong team drilling it through the duration of the race/stage, for a cyclist that can make a difference on the slightest of slope, to win. Breakaway with no real chance of succeeding. More traditional types of cyclists, for such race type, long gone before the finish line. But there is another "problem" involved. General public just loves such things. A cyclist that can win PR and Tour in a grand fashion. Hence the reality is for most of the interested public this is the end goal. On how it should be. But the reality is also that this is kinda stupid. To have at best 3 cyclists that will win all races and stages in the season. And when they rarely face each other for a crash to prevent it unfold.

Or we are finally in an era where riders are as good as the greats in the past.

This seems like golf in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Prior to then, everyone wrongly said that the players were too talented to allow another Nicklaus or Palmer to come along. Nobody could dominate. Instead, the top players of the late 80's through the mid 90s simply were not that good. Tiger and Phil then came along and showed that yes, seasons and careers of the past were still possible. We are seeing that in cycling today with Remco and Pog, and to a lesser extent Rog

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I don't see how Van Aert can be included as he doesn't win the big races. Pidders' classic season is on a par with him but he's not big 6.
Would we have included sam Bennet in the big six in 2020 for winning green?

 

[TourOfSardinia]

You forgot Froomey

 

[acm]

Big 2. Pog & Rog.

 

[Potomac]

How is winning stages different from classics? How is it any versatility in amd of its own?

A shocking statement considering the source.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The overwhelming narrative of the mens 2023 Road season so far has been the utter dominance of the big 6 riders reigning supreme over the mere mortals like a modern day set of Greek Gods.

I can’t think of any occasion this season where another rider has won a race (GC or 1 day classic) featuring at least 1 big 6 alumni without being a teammate such as Laporte or Philipsen winning GW and Scheldeprijs.

Their levels and in most cases panache in terms of long range attacking intent has been excellent to watch but has left it feeling very flat when only 1 of the bigs is present at a race.

How can this be countered as even a very dangerous group of 2nd tier favourites got well over 2 minutes in RVV and still got smashed to pieces by Pogacar in the end.

Further to this what are your predictions for the first time a big beast will be slayed.

The thing is. These strong riders all have realized a long or hard finale makes it so that eventually the strongest will win. Usually a tactic would be to anticipate. But these strong riders, or big 6 as you call them, let their team pace so hard to control the early break and attack so early themselves, you have to basically go at the start to anticipate...
The 2nd string favorites going in RVV proves this point. They go really early because you know the big 6 go early as well. And by the time the big 6 go themselves, the second string favorites have been riding so long already they are completely empty by the time the favorites catch up.

Ergo, you'd need a significantly easier race to stand a chance to defeat 'the big 6'. But they won't allow it. All this record pace racing plays EXACTLY into the hands of the superior talented cyclists...

 

[Bonimenier]

I don't see how Van Aert can be included as he doesn't win the big races. Pidders' classic season is on a par with him but he's not big 6.
Would we have included sam Bennet in the big six in 2020 for winning green?

Wasn't there a thread in 2021 of another big 6 with Bennett included?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

To add to my previous post, what annoys me is that there is barely tactics involved in the spring classics anymore. It's just start the final really early and automatically the strongest will survive and win. There is not much you can do to counter that because they start so damn early. This is also the main complaint I've read from the 'second' string favorites with super strong riders as Kung, Ganna, etc in the cobbles and Benoot, Pidcock etc in the ardennes.

Yeah you can anticipate but if you have to do that at 100km you are likely gassed with 30km to go anyway. And if you wait until 30km you are gonna get slaughtered anyway. Hard to counter that. There is just not 1 but 2 levels between them.
And it's not like the gap is not closeable btw. I believe with time riders like Pidcock, Healy, Skjelmose, De Lie and other 23 and under guys can close that gap eventually.

 

[Gigs_98]

I agree their presence tends to make races a tad boring if there is nobody to rival them, but I still very much prefer genuinely great riders making memorable performances over a bunch of meh riders having close but forgettable races. I absolutely think men's pro cycling is currently more enjoyable than towards the end of the 2010's when the greats of the previous era, guys like Froome, Nibali, Valverde, Cancellara, Contador, Gilbert were either retiring or losing a bit of their former strength. That just let to lots of races being won by riders I feel kinda indifferent about (Which QS rider will win by attacking a big group and nobody willing to chase next???) or races still being won by the same great but now old riders, who were missing a lot of their former spark (stuff like Froome in the 2017 Tour).

Those races were often close and unpredictable, but I didn't particularly enjoy Valverde winning his 600th sprint out of a small group, Froome winning the Tour less than a minute in front of Uran, Thomas becoming the #1 gc threat in the world, or Terpstra and GVA winning classics because everyone else was obsessed with Sagan's backwheel.
Evenepoel winning yesterday wasn't very exciting, but was it less exciting than most LBL editions of the late 2010's? I really don't think so. Right now at least I know that when two of the big 6 are riding, I'm going to see a clash of two titans. And that's something I feel we currently aren't really appreciating.

 

[rallybanana]

Wasn't there a thread in 2021 of another big 6 with Bennett included?

Yes
Can anyone beat these 6 | Cyclingnews Forum

 

[Kwaremonster]

I love threads like these that make a lot of sense and are total nonsense at the same time.

More sense, like somebody alluded to, is it to devide top riders per discipline. And one day races or monuments shouldn't be thrown on the same pile either. The lbs field weighs like 10 kg less on average than the Paris roubaix field for instance. And while mvdp might fluke a lbl win in his career or pogacar Paris roubaix, neither will be favourite for those races.

I do the general sentiment though, it feels like for a fun race, either none of them should start, or all of them.