Interesting stuff. So 1 Ronde win + 4th place worth 3 times more than 2 Ronde wins + 2 second places + fourth place.
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Elos Anjos
BANNED
Nice effort, chapeau.
But no way Rog is one star in one day races. Check is palmares more thoroughly. And I would put him on par with Pog in Stage races. I agree with his 3 stars in GTs but adding a note about that is justified by how prone to crash he is, thus discounting athletic ability and mental strength.
Other notes: perhaps updating WVA to the statues of Remco in one day races would be more fair.
Interesting but I don't really see why 83 is max when these riders are probably the best we have ever seen.
There are also a few things I don't agree with apart from that (why is Evenepoel's resistance 3 points lower than Pogacar's, for example)?
Not sure if we should separate stage races and GT?
Pogacar 15, Evenepoel 13, Roglic 12, Vingegaard 10, WvA 8, MvP 7. I would give 5 stars to peak Roglic in GTs but given recent year or so it's 4 stars (maybe it will be 5 after the Giro again). OTOH his 3 stars in one-day races are a big overrated in recent times so it kinda evens out. Remco is yet to hit 5 stars in GTs and stage-races, maybe the Giro will change the score.
| One-day races | Grand Tours | Stage races | |
| ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ | Pogacar, Evenepoel, MVP | Pogacar, Vingegaard | Pogacar, Roglic |
| ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ | WvA | Evenepoel, Roglic | Evenepoel, Vingegaard |
| ☆ ☆ ☆ | Roglic | ||
| ☆ ☆ | WvA | WvA | |
| ☆ | Vingegaard | MvdP | MvdP |
Pogacar 15, Evenepoel 13, Roglic 12, Vingegaard 10, WvA 8, MvP 7. I would give 5 stars to peak Roglic in GTs but given recent year or so it's 4 stars (maybe it will be 5 after the Giro again). OTOH his 3 stars in one-day races are a big overrated in recent times so it kinda evens out. Remco is yet to hit 5 stars in GTs and stage-races, maybe the Giro will change the score.
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Still it's much more realistic. Compared to random forum made lists. Usually based on who you like more.
| Grand Tours | One Day Races | Stage Races | |
| * | Vingegaard | Van Der Poel | Roglic |
| **** | Pogacar | Pogacar | Pogacar |
| *** | Evenepoel | Evenepoel | Evenepoel |
| ** | Roglic | Van Aert | Vingegaard |
| * | Van Aert | Roglic | Van Aert |
| Van Der Poel | Vingagaard | Van Der Poel |
Elos Anjos
BANNED
In the discussion context perhaps but you have plently of riders that are good stage races and don't excell in GTs.
Elos Anjos
BANNED
In a Forum like this with fans swarming around screaming and yelling like Justin Bieber fans? You know the answer.
Well, since the maximum in the game is 85, I guess 83 is for the form of the day to impact even one of the best rider.
If not for that, to me 85 mountain is Pantani Huez / Riis Hautacam.
For the resistance, I wanted to show how Pogacar can go 95% several time in a row (i-e vs Vingegaard in the tour, or on RVV on each climb). But as the stat is also used for sustained effort (like TT), yes it is true Evenepoel should be higher.
Imo, Evenepoel can go 85% for a very long time, but should not go above 90% more than once.
In contrast, Pogacar seems less able to sustain a long 85% effort, but seems able to recover very effectively from attacks.
So currently i have them at:
Evenepoel AFAIK hasn't done it yet.
van der Poel gifted a free lesson to some kids.
Pogačar gifted a stage at ToS to Majka.
van Aert gifted Gent to Laporte.
Vingegaard gifted Dauphiné to Roglič.
Roglič gifted Tour to Pogačar and Vingegaard.
Evenepoel AFAIK hasn't done it yet.
van der Poel gifted a free lesson to some kids.
Pogačar gifted a stage at ToS to Majka.
van Aert gifted Gent to Laporte.
Vingegaard gifted Dauphiné to Roglič.
Roglič gifted Tour to Pogačar and Vingegaard.
Aimar16
BANNED
Don't you feel that your words contradict each other?
No, it has nothing to do with past results. The percentages are about how much chance I would give a rider to finish ahead of another rider in that race.
I consider Pog, MvdP, Remco, WvA to be better one-day racers than Rog. That's all the stars mean. It's just ranking them 1-2-3-4-5-6, nothing else.
The ranking is clear, you don't need tables or points or anything
- Pogacar
- EVdepoel
- Roglic
- Van der Poel
- Vinegggard
- wva
Elos Anjos
BANNED
Well, I guess you had to stop somewhere. One day races have a lot of variety. We tend to group them as Monuments, quasi-monuments, classics. But Rog has a 2nd place at LFW, and 1st at LBL, Milano-Torino, Giro dell´Emilia (2x), Tre Valle Varesine. And he hasn't been going steady for other one day races.
Not at all. Looking at the latest Tour De France which is also the latest GT they did makes sense. But saying Rog is ahead of Remco because he already won more Vuelta's does not, when Remco won their last confrontation in a GT.
Elos Anjos
BANNED
Lame and lazy thinking.Should one state the obvious? Roglic crashed in the Vuelta while already sheding time on the boy. That's hardly a confrontation. It's like saying that Remco and Pog also raced together.
And Roglic beat the boy in Volta a Catalunya. You might want to add that to your science
Should one state the obvious? Roglic crashed in the Vuelta while already sheding time on the boy. That's hardly a confrontation. It's like saying that Remco and Pog also raced together.
And Roglic beat the boy in Volta a Catalunya. You might want to add that to your science
Roglic always manages to crash, nothing Evenepoel "the boy" can do about that. If you remember the boy also crashed and suffered from it afterwards but still won the GT comfortably. And let's not forget Roglic got thoroughly dropped by Evenepoel before his crash.
Roglic won Catalunya by what was it, 6 seconds? During that week of racing he certainly didn't seem stronger. They were both much better than the rest of the field but it's not like you can look back and say Roglic bested him or anything.
I was going to dig up their respective palmares, but then I realized I don’t go on astronomy forums and try to convince people that the earth is round…
Common red flanders:
I was honestly expecting a top 7 with Masnada on 1
WTF? How about actually looking at their results before spewing BS
Major results (Hincapie)
1992
1st Team time trial,
National Road Championships
1994
2nd Overall Tour de Luxembourg
1st Points classification1st
Stages 1 & 44th
Classic Haribo
1995
1st Acht van Chaam
3rd Reading Classic
10th Philadelphia International Championship
1997
5th Reading Classic
1998
1st Road race,
National Road Championships
1st Philadelphia International Championship
2nd Reading Classic5th Lancaster Classic
1999
1st Reading Classic
1st Stage 6PruTour
1st Points classification, Tour de Luxembourg3rd
Lancaster Classic
4th Gent–Wevelgem
4th Paris–Roubaix
5th HEW Cyclassics
9th Milan–San Remo
9th Philadelphia International Championship
2000
3rd Reading Classic
4th Trofeo Luis Puig
5th Philadelphia International Championship
6th Paris–Roubaix
7th Lancaster Classic
8th Road race, Olympic Games
2001
1st Gent–Wevelgem
1st San Francisco Grand Prix
2nd Lancaster Classic
3rd Overall Tour de Picardie
3rd Philadelphia International Championship
4th Paris–Roubaix
9th Milan–San Remo
2002
1st Stage 1 (TTT) Volta Ciclista a Catalunya
2nd Classic Haribo
3rd Gent–Wevelgem
3rd Overall Volta ao Algarve
4th Tour of Flanders
5th HEW Cyclassics
5th Philadelphia International Championship
6th Paris–Roubaix
9th Lancaster Classic
2003
1st Stage 4 (TTT) Tour de France
7th Overall Tour of Belgium
2004
1st Overall Three Days of De Panne
4th Gent–Wevelgem
5th Overall Paris–Nice
8th Paris–Roubaix
10th Tour of Flanders
Voided results from May 31, 2004, to July 31, 2006.[4]
2004
1st Stage 4 (TTT) Tour de France
3rd San Francisco Grand Prix
5th Grand Prix Eddy Merckx
2005
1st Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne
1st GP Ouest–France
Tour de France1st Stages 4 & 15
Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré1st Stages 1 & 7
2nd Paris–Roubaix
6th Brabantse Pijl
7th Tour of Flanders
2006
3rd Tour of Flanders
4th Overall Tour of California 1st Stages 2 & 5
5th Gent–Wevelgem
8th Overall Tirreno–Adriatico
2006
1st Road race, National Road Championships
2nd Overall Eneco Tour
1st Stage 4 (ITT)
9th Clásica de San Sebastián
2007
1st Overall Tour of Missouri1st Stage 2
2nd Road race, National Road Championships
2008
1st Stage 2 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
1st Stage 7 Tour of California
4th Overall Tour of Missouri
5th Tour of Flanders
9th Paris–Roubaix9th Overall
Three Days of De Panne
2009
1st Road race, National Road Championships
8th E3 Prijs Vlaanderen
2010
4th Gent–Wevelgem
6th Tour of Flanders
2011
2nd Road race, National Road Championships
5th Overall USA Pro Cycling Challenge
1st Stage 26th Tour of Flanders
As is clearly evident, a few of Hincapies years are on par with WVAs. Hincapie, however, was a damn good teammate in the GTs, whereas WVA often goes full SVA and free lances. Yes, he wins more stages as a result. However, he is not as dependable as he should be. 2005 showed that Hincapie could do the same thing and win in the high mountains, when he was allowed to go into the breakaway
I don't think you'll find anyone in the pro peloton that will agree that WVA was not a dependable teammate for Vingegaard
Quite the opposite.
Anyway, your comparison is silly anyway ;-)
I don't think you'll find anyone in the pro peloton that will agree that WVA was not a dependable teammate for Vingegaard
Quite the opposite.
Anyway, your comparison is silly anyway ;-)
He was much better last year than he was the previous 2 years. I even stated as such during the tour last year
But the hype he received for his tour performance was worthy of someone who won the tour himself
Versatility is a great servant, but a terrible master. Consistency likewise. They are not the measures of what's good, they are the means to achieve it.
Back when there were real races in the US. Hincapie's career makes me sad. Wish he had been on Domo Farm Frites instead of Team LA..
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