Teams & Riders The Big 6

[Berniece]

Some absolute takes in this thread this year.

Nobody has ever been more clearly the 5th best rider in the world than Roglic basically is right now, unless people wanna argue a pure sprinter should be ranked above him.

Why do you feel he is clearly the 5th best rider in the world? Not saying he isn't the 5th best rider, but I only see him like that because I take his previous results pre-2025 into account.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As all of the top 6 are in this race and first week is more like riding classics, tomorrow rather longish and flat TT, lets first see today on how each of them currently fares on such terrain. A rather perfect stage for that. Deeper into the race we can test them on the hills too.

Hopefully for Rogla to still be in top 35, or whatever the pre-race narrative currently is.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Why do you feel he is clearly the 5th best rider in the world? Not saying he isn't the 5th best rider, but I only see him like that because I take his previous results pre-2025 into account.

It depends what time period one uses to determine currently the best riders. To me it's the last 12 months (so every race is represented) and then Roglic is top5 mainly due to his Vuelta win.

 

[Red Rick]

Why do you feel he is clearly the 5th best rider in the world? Not saying he isn't the 5th best rider, but I only see him like that because I take his previous results pre-2025 into account.

Because Pogacar, Vingegaard, Van der Poel and Evenepoel are clearly better, and everyone else is clearly worse, especially at scoring wins in the big races. There is no 5th rider with a serious argument to be better than him whatsoever, only much worse riders who get much more positive PR for worse results. The only exception may be Simon Yates because he won the Giro, and that would be extremely results orientiented on a super small sample of races.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Because Pogacar, Vingegaard, Van der Poel and Evenepoel are clearly better ...

Meh.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Should we just do a factors analysis of the UCI-ranking?

 

[AmRacer]

So, Wout is #6 then.

 

[Red Rick]

Should we just do a factors analysis of the UCI-ranking?

There is only one correct way to look at the UCI-ranking and that's to look at it while laughing hysterically

 

[Berniece]

Because Pogacar, Vingegaard, Van der Poel and Evenepoel are clearly better, and everyone else is clearly worse, especially at scoring wins in the big races. There is no 5th rider with a serious argument to be better than him whatsoever, only much worse riders who get much more positive PR for worse results. The only exception may be Simon Yates because he won the Giro, and that would be extremely results orientiented on a super small sample of races.

I was also thinking about Almeida. The one we've seen this year could've won the Giro

 

[Pozzovivo]

There is only one correct way to look at the UCI-ranking and that's to look at it while laughing hysterically

It does not capture everything correctly of course, but I think it does a better job of capturing who has performed best the last year than random users like myself arguing from my personal preference about "who is best".

 

[Red Rick]

I was also thinking about Almeida. The one we've seen this year could've won the Giro

He could have. Just like other riders that did not show up or finish the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

It does not capture everything correctly of course, but I think it does a better job of capturing who has performed best the last year than random users like myself arguing from my personal preference about "who is best".

It does not. The point structure is ludicrously flat and biased toward shitty 1 day races and minor placings. There are so many h2hs that are a complete utter joke in that list it's not even worth debating.

Getting Pogacar at #1 is the only thing it gets right because it's essentially impossible to make a ranking system where he doesn't get #1.

 

[Pozzovivo]

It does not. The point structure is ludicrously flat and biased toward shitty 1 day races and minor placings. There are so many h2hs that are a complete utter joke in that list it's not even worth debating.

Getting Pogacar at #1 is the only thing it gets right because it's essentially impossible to make a ranking system where he doesn't get #1.

I agree with your criticism of the system for sure. A top 100 ranking yields ridiculous results when you compare H2H. Yet, who in the top 10 don't belong there among a more subjective "top 10 riders the last year"?

Maybe Bini #10th and Carapz 9th but the top 8 are very reasonably placed in the top 10.


Name Points
Pogacar Tadej 11310
Evenepoel Remco 6291
Pedersen Mads 4695
van Aert Wout 4257
van der Poel Mathieu 3806
Almeida João 3798
Vingegaard Jonas 3581
Roglic Primoz 3485
Carapaz Richard 3294
Girmay Biniam 3243

 

[Peyroteo94]

Why do you feel he is clearly the 5th best rider in the world? Not saying he isn't the 5th best rider, but I only see him like that because I take his previous results pre-2025 into account.

If you look to results in 2025, Remco is not in the Big 6.

 

[Red Rick]

If you look to results in 2025, Remco is not in the Big 6.

Neither is Vingegaard or Roglic.

Which goes to show that 2025 only makes it a silly exercise.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It does not. The point structure is ludicrously flat and biased toward shitty 1 day races and minor placings. There are so many h2hs that are a complete utter joke in that list it's not even worth debating.

Getting Pogacar at #1 is the only thing it gets right because it's essentially impossible to make a ranking system where he doesn't get #1.

At this moment MVP is the number 2 because he beats Pogacar in his targets (unless Vingegaard wins the Tour this year).

 

[Peyroteo94]

Neither is Vingegaard or Roglic.

Which goes to show that 2025 only makes it a silly exercise.

Yes, I agree. This is why I gave this argument.

 

[Berniece]

If you look to results in 2025, Remco is not in the Big 6.

Which I'm not doing...

 

[Peyroteo94]

Which I'm not doing...

You said you only consider Roglic a top5 rider because of previous years and I said the same can be said about Remco (or Vingegaard).

 

[Berniece]

You said you only consider Roglic a top5 rider because of previous years and I said the same can be said about Remco (or Vingegaard).

Actually I don't even agree in case of Remco. Knowing where he comes from, his crash and the results he has ridden since then, he is still big 6 material.

 

[Netserk]

Actually I don't even agree in case of Remco. Knowing where he comes from, his crash and the results he has ridden since then, he is still big 6 material.

Then Rogla is top-6 this year as well.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Actually I don't even agree in case of Remco. Knowing where he comes from, his crash and the results he has ridden since then, he is still big 6 material.

He is (no doubt about that) but if we look to his results in 2025, even Roglic has been showing better performances (Volta a Catalunya).
Pedersen
Pogacar
MVP
Almeida
Roglic
Lipowitz

Of course, his crash hampered his palmares this season but until this moment, there are more than 6 riders "better" than him.

 

[Berniece]

Then Rogla is top-6 this year as well.

Because of Catalunya?

 

[Netserk]

Because of Catalunya?

Yes, and the circumstances for the Giro.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Neither is Vingegaard or Roglic.

Which goes to show that 2025 only makes it a silly exercise.

But it is not a season ranking but a yearly ranking as you know I'm sure. And they both belong in the top 10 the last year.