Teams & Riders The Big 6

[YavorD]

There was conjecture but no confirmation from the team.

I am still fairly sure that Vingegaard confirmed himself he had a concussion before Catalunya, which made it clear why he isn't riding.

 

[Netserk]

I am still fairly sure that Vingegaard confirmed himself he had a concussion before Catalunya, which made it clear why he isn't riding.

Jonas Vingegaard suffered concussion in Paris-Nice crash, missed nine days of training

Visma-Lease a Bike keeping quiet on racing and training plans ahead of next scheduled outing at the Critérium du Dauphiné

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[aphronesis]

Yeah, I’m not going to dig for other links, but the topic came up pretty quickly and was then confirmed (if tacitly.) A lot of the talk about light Spring racing doesn’t seem to take that on.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Pocagar - Satan
MVDO - good rider
Remco - good rider
Vingegard - good stage racer
Roglic - bad rider apart from when he's trolling remco
Belgian potato - bad rider

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Pocagar - Satan
MVDO - good rider
Remco - good rider
Vingegard - good stage racer
Roglic - bad rider
Belgian potato - bad rider

In my opinion, I wouldn't be able to write with such elegance and class.
It's like F. R. David once sang: Worms don't come easy to me.

 

[Breh]

Belgian potato - bad rider

Absolute poetry

 

[AlfaLum]

Is this topic about:

Pogacar
Vingegaard
Evenepoel
Van der Poel
Del Toro
Pedersen /Almeida

Now?

 

[Oldman]

Is this topic about:

Pogacar
Vingegaard
Evenepoel
Van der Poel
Del Toro
Pedersen /Almeida

Now?

After the Andorra race it could be about novelty racing and it's character revelations. If Matheu had shown up he'd be the only stylish one that supermodels would pay attention to. Maybe Del Toro but he needs to mature a bit.

 

[peterfin]

Is this topic about:

Pogacar
Vingegaard
Evenepoel
Van der Poel
Del Toro
Pedersen /Almeida

Now?

Or maybe we should call it The Big One instead?

 

[Lurkerman]

I think the idea of the big six (from spring 2023) was that it was a small group of riders where, if only one of them started the race, you just knew (that is, pretty much 100 %) in advance that he'd win (or gift the race to Laporte). Important to keep this in mind in case someone tries to update the group at some point. So right now it can't be merely the big one only because MVDP would also need to be in it (as you can't find a group of riders who you know'll always beat MVDP on the big scene since MVDP literally wins big). Logically, if you put all professional riders in the group, it'd work in the same way but simply be the big peloton, so the art is to try and keep the group small

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

@Lurkerman I guess if I had to narrow it down based on that criteria, you'd have to go with a Big 3, as much as it pains me to admit it:

1. Pogacar will win any GT and Monument outside of maybe P-R, MSR, and certain Worlds/Oly courses
2. MVdP will, I think, win P-R and be top 2 favorite in MSR and certain Worlds/Oly courses
3. Remco will win any championship ITT

The others (or mostly even each other) will likely not beat those 3 in any of their realm of dominance (Roglic might beat Remco in a GT, for example, but he will not beat him at a championship ITT even though he won the Olympics in 2020). However, I'd probably go with the Big 5 in place of the Big 6. The next two most logical are:

1. Vingegaard will win any GT that Pogacar is not in.
2. Roglic will win any one-week stage race that Pogacar is not in. Tough year, but until he truly fails hard at a targeted race when he isn't injured, I'm keeping him in.

I love Wout, but he is out. His win in Paris shows he still has it in him when healthy, but it's been too long without a big classics win. Mads doesn't actually win any of his targets, so he is out. Del Toro folded so badly in the Giro that it can't possibly balance out the other good things he did this year, plus he didn't win anything big. Lipowitz definitely not there, Onley not there, Seixas, etc.

I think there is an >80% chance of at least one of the following happening though:

1. Del Toro breaks into the Big 6
2. Wout restores his place in the Big 6
3. Roglic drops out of the Big 6

 

[peterfin]

I think the idea of the big six (from spring 2023) was that it was a small group of riders where, if only one of them started the race, you just knew (that is, pretty much 100 %) in advance that he'd win (or gift the race to Laporte). Important to keep this in mind in case someone tries to update the group at some point. So right now it can't be merely the big one only because MVDP would also need to be in it (as you can't find a group of riders who you know'll always beat MVDP on the big scene since MVDP literally wins big). Logically, if you put all professional riders in the group, it'd work in the same way but simply be the big peloton, so the art is to try and keep the group small

We should refine the definition: a rider is considered part of the "Big X" if he wins almost everytime when he starts and he is in shape and no other one of this group is present in either road races or a stage races (or both) considering that the race is a target to win (e.g. not a bunch sprint race where he helps a team mate for example).

All of the current list were in the group a year or two ago. Today it looks like we are down to 4 (Pogi, Vingegaard, MVDP Remco) and Del Toro is a candidate to join the group.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

When it comes to wins in top races against the biggest rivals it's basically Big2 now. Pogacar wins most of big races he enters (10 (!) out of last 13 attempts in 2024-2025) and when he loses it's only because of MVP (in two spring monuments).

 

[RedheadDane]

I am now going to end this debate once and for all!
(But probably not in the way you were expecting.)

#	Rider	Team	Height in CM
1	PLANCKE Nicolas	Cycling Team Luc Wallays - Jonge Renners	207
2	VAN PAMEL Dimi		203
3	CRIBB Jeff		203
4	NORSGAARD Mathias	Movistar Team	202
5	WEHDE Aaron	Team MaxWatt	201
6	SYTEMA Jesse	WV Eemland	200

 

[greyclouds]

We should refine the definition: a rider is considered part of the "Big X" if he wins almost everytime when he starts and he is in shape and no other one of this group is present in either road races or a stage races (or both) considering that the race is a target to win (e.g. not a bunch sprint race where he helps a team mate for example).

All of the current list were in the group a year or two ago. Today it looks like we are down to 4 (Pogi, Vingegaard, MVDP Remco) and Del Toro is a candidate to join the group.

At this moment I would also go with the Big 4.

Del Toro is a candidate but no more than that, after all he only has one WT win this year.

 

[Berniece]

Del Toro is a candidate but no more than that, after all he only has one WT win this year.

This year showed that Del Toro definitely is not a candidate yet. If he has to race against proper opposition, and the race is longer he loses and isn't dominant at all. See San Sebastian, WC and Lombardia.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Nowadays there is a Big 4:

1 - Pogacar
2 - MVP
3 - Vingegaard
4 - Remco

 

[Berniece]

Nowadays there is a Big 4:

1 - Pogacar
2 - MVP
3 - Vingegaard
4 - Remco

Roglic just beat Pogacar in Andorra