Teams & Riders The Big 6

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yes, Pogi is by far the best rider in the world. Remco is second even though he’s not the best GT rider, nor the best classics rider (MVdP is better at his discipline than Remco at his).

If he is in good shape, I'm pretty sure he wins any important hilly classic (this year - LBL, GdL, WC) without Pogacar.
For me it's all about this:
Originally, we had a big 6 so we need to look if any of them can win easily specific races without all the other 5.

Roglic, without WVA, Pogi, Remco, MVP, Vingegaard, would win any GT he enters (without bad luck)? The answer is no IMO. So Roglic is out of the Big 6. Reduced to big 5.

WVA, without all other 5, can dominate cobbled classics? The answer is no right now. Reduced to big 4.

Remco, without all other 5, can dominate hilly classics (GdL, LBL and WC - when the route is for puncheurs/climbers). The answer is yes.

Pogacar - For sure.

MVP - For sure in cobbled classics and MSR + WC when the route is for puncheurs.

IMO, it's a big 4 but if we don't exclude "aliens", there is only a Big 2 but with Pogacar miles ahead of MVP.

I strongly disagree with this take. In 2024, he was right there with Remco clear of the rest before crashing out, then he dominated the Vuelta. In 2025, he dominated Catalunya and wore pink before bad luck struck, which rendered his Giro (crashed out) and Tour (8th but top 3 climber in multiple stages) irrelevant. Unless you want to remove the “(without bad luck)” qualifier, we have no evidence that this is not true of Roglic, but we do have evidence that it is true. That might change next year.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, Pogi is by far the best rider in the world. Remco is second even though he’s not the best GT rider, nor the best classics rider (MVdP is better at his discipline than Remco at his).

I strongly disagree with this take. In 2024, he was right there with Remco clear of the rest before crashing out, then he dominated the Vuelta. In 2025, he dominated Catalunya and wore pink before bad luck struck, which rendered his Giro (crashed out) and Tour (8th but top 3 climber in multiple stages) irrelevant. Unless you want to remove the “(without bad luck)” qualifier, we have no evidence that this is not true of Roglic, but we do have evidence that it is true. That might change next year.

This year is was very underwhelming in the TdF.
In the Giro, he lost a stage tailormade for him and he wasn't even close to win it (the stage Ayuso won).
But nothing to be done, we have a different opinion.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

This year is was very underwhelming in the TdF.
In the Giro, he lost a stage tailormade for him and he wasn't even close to win it (the stage Ayuso won).
But nothing to be done, we have a different opinion.

I hear you; I was hoping for more on that stage. However, he was prepping for a Giro-Tour double so came in undercooked and focused his training on long mountain stages, not punchy ones.

Question for you: Given what you know about his Tour prep (crashed out of a hard Giro that had gnarly weather, was off the bike, got an infection, etc.), what would you have expected from him that Tour? Or from, say, Remco in that same situation?

 

[greyclouds]

Yes, Pogi is by far the best rider in the world. Remco is second even though he’s not the best GT rider, nor the best classics rider (MVdP is better at his discipline than Remco at his).

I strongly disagree with this take. In 2024, he was right there with Remco clear of the rest before crashing out, then he dominated the Vuelta. In 2025, he dominated Catalunya and wore pink before bad luck struck, which rendered his Giro (crashed out) and Tour (8th but top 3 climber in multiple stages) irrelevant. Unless you want to remove the “(without bad luck)” qualifier, we have no evidence that this is not true of Roglic, but we do have evidence that it is true. That might change next year.

I can’t see Roglic still being part of a Big-5 or 6.

By this logic then Almeida would also be here (dominated Suisse, Romandie and Itzulia + clear 2nd on Vuelta) and as much as I like him don’t think he belongs on a Big-6 bracket.

 

[Cycling111]

Yes, Pogi is by far the best rider in the world. Remco is second even though he’s not the best GT rider, nor the best classics rider (MVdP is better at his discipline than Remco at his).

I strongly disagree with this take. In 2024, he was right there with Remco clear of the rest before crashing out, then he dominated the Vuelta. In 2025, he dominated Catalunya and wore pink before bad luck struck, which rendered his Giro (crashed out) and Tour (8th but top 3 climber in multiple stages) irrelevant. Unless you want to remove the “(without bad luck)” qualifier, we have no evidence that this is not true of Roglic, but we do have evidence that it is true. That might change next year.

The stage Ayuso won in the Giro was before the crash, and Roglic had no chance on that stage. The worrying thing is that he was even overtaken by Bernal.

Rogic's best day this year was a 99-kilometer stage in the Volta Catalunya. He showed very bad symptoms on that stage of the Giro. Afterward, he had the crash, but the worrying thing is that that stage was before the accident.

We can say he didn't arrive at the Tour well, but Roglic won the Vuelta after crashes because he was the third-best GT rider. A Roglic who won those Vueltas wouldn't have been beaten by Lipowitz or Onley.

Although it should also be said that the Tour is not the Vuelta. The Tour is raced at a different pace, and the stages are tougher.

Just like his performance in races like Lombardia, it's been very worrying. He said he'd prepared very well for the World Championship and Lombardia, but they were a disaster.Rogic has always struggled in long races, but in Lombardia, he didn't even finish in the top 20.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I hear you; I was hoping for more on that stage. However, he was prepping for a Giro-Tour double so came in undercooked and focused his training on long mountain stages, not punchy ones.

Question for you: Given what you know about his Tour prep (crashed out of a hard Giro that had gnarly weather, was off the bike, got an infection, etc.), what would you have expected from him that Tour? Or from, say, Remco in that same situation?

I didn't expect anything. I almost got insulted by Roglic fans when I said he wouldn't make top5 in the TdF. I don't buy the Giro-Tour attempt, he just tried to peak for the Giro to win it. The Tour in his schedule is just because he is the face/star of Bora.
I don't believe in Remco as a reliable GT rider so a Giro-Tour attempt would be a disaster IMO, specially having similar issues to what Roglic had.

 

[hayneplane]

For that logic is big 4 (what I defend)

Remco - TTs and hilly classics
MVP - Cobbled classics
Pogacar - Everything
Vingegaard- Stage races

After last season it is fair to say that at best Roglic and Van Aert are clinging on to their status by their fingernails and will be on eviction watch in the Spring classics and early stage races.

If you were starting this afresh with no previous set then the way you listed it would be the most logical starting point.

 

[Cycling111]

I didn't expect anything. I almost got insulted by Roglic fans when I said he wouldn't make top5 in the TdF. I don't buy the Giro-Tour attempt, he just tried to peak for the Giro to win it. The Tour in his schedule is just because he is the face/star of Bora.
I don't believe in Remco as a reliable GT rider so a Giro-Tour attempt would be a disaster IMO, specially having similar issues to what Roglic had.

I remember when it was said in the Roglic thread that he'd arrive at the Tour better than ever for riding the Giro, when that's never been advisable.

Once again, an achievement by Pogacar was underestimated.

And it's obviously not advisable for someone like Remco, who isn't dominant in GT. If he rides Giro-Tour, he'll most likely have more difficulties in the Tour.
Besides, Vingegaard is going to the Giro, so it's not even worth it for him to try to secure an "easy" GT win.

 

[red_flanders]

I think Remco is arguably the second-best rider overall in the world, without being close to Jonas in GTs or to MvdP in the classics hierarchy by merits.

Yeah he's just in a spot where he's second to Pog and MVdP in the classics, and second to Pog and Jonas in GTs.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I can’t see Roglic still being part of a Big-5 or 6.

By this logic then Almeida would also be here (dominated Suisse, Romandie and Itzulia + clear 2nd on Vuelta) and as much as I like him don’t think he belongs on a Big-6 bracket.

Almeida has never won a GT. Roglic won the 2024 Vuelta (among others).

I didn't expect anything. I almost got insulted by Roglic fans when I said he wouldn't make top5 in the TdF. I don't buy the Giro-Tour attempt, he just tried to peak for the Giro to win it. The Tour in his schedule is just because he is the face/star of Bora.
I don't believe in Remco as a reliable GT rider so a Giro-Tour attempt would be a disaster IMO, specially having similar issues to what Roglic had.

You cited his performance in the 2025 Tour as the primary reason he doesn’t qualify. My question back is if he hasn’t declined and had that same crash + infection, what would you have expected from him in the Tour that would prove he hadn’t declined? If you don’t think he would have been able to do much better given the circumstances, his performance there shouldn’t be cited as evidence.

After last season it is fair to say that at best Roglic and Van Aert are clinging on to their status by their fingernails and will be on eviction watch in the Spring classics and early stage races.

If you were starting this afresh with no previous set then the way you listed it would be the most logical starting point.

This is a fair assessment.

I remember when it was said in the Roglic thread that he'd arrive at the Tour better than ever for riding the Giro, when that's never been advisable.

Once again, an achievement by Pogacar was underestimated.

And it's obviously not advisable for someone like Remco, who isn't dominant in GT. If he rides Giro-Tour, he'll most likely have more difficulties in the Tour.
Besides, Vingegaard is going to the Giro, so it's not even worth it for him to try to secure an "easy" GT win.

Seems a bit like a straw man. Who exactly said this? I think there were a lot of jokes citing his Vueltas after the Tour crashes suggesting he’d crash out of the Giro and win the Tour, but I don’t think this is a fair assessment of what the vast majority of people, even Roglic fans, thought or said.

Yeah he's just in a spot where he's second to Pog and MVdP in the classics, and second to Pog and Jonas in GTs.

Technically third but I get your point. He’s the only rider aside from Pogacar at this point in time that could potentially win a monument, GT, Worlds ITT, and Worlds in a given year. So I agree he’s the second best all-around rider in the world.

 

[red_flanders]

Technically third but I get your point. He’s the only rider aside from Pogacar at this point in time that could potentially win a monument, GT, Worlds ITT, and Worlds in a given year. So I agree he’s the second best all-around rider in the world.

Technically...third in what?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Technically...third in what?

Maybe I misunderstood. You said he was "second to Pog and Jonas in GTs," if if you're second to two people, you're actually third, right? I wasn't really trying to get into a nitpicking back and forth, to be honest.

 

[red_flanders]

Maybe I misunderstood. You said he was "second to Pog and Jonas in GTs," if if you're second to two people, you're actually third, right? I wasn't really trying to get into a nitpicking back and forth, to be honest.

Got it, yes. Poor phrasing on my part. Thanks. In my head it was more of a second to this rider or that rider, where sometimes it might yes, be both.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Until the gap to team UAE is closed i feel this debate is rather pointless.

 

[red_flanders]

Until the gap to team UAE is closed i feel this debate is rather pointless.

For sure. We need more on-point conversations about how Roglic might win the Giro and podium the Tour.

 

[dercuforever]

@Lurkerman I guess if I had to narrow it down based on that criteria, you'd have to go with a Big 3, as much as it pains me to admit it:

1. Pogacar will win any GT and Monument outside of maybe P-R, MSR, and certain Worlds/Oly courses
2. MVdP will, I think, win P-R and be top 2 favorite in MSR and certain Worlds/Oly courses
3. Remco will win any championship ITT

The others (or mostly even each other) will likely not beat those 3 in any of their realm of dominance (Roglic might beat Remco in a GT, for example, but he will not beat him at a championship ITT even though he won the Olympics in 2020). However, I'd probably go with the Big 5 in place of the Big 6. The next two most logical are:

1. Vingegaard will win any GT that Pogacar is not in.
2. Roglic will win any one-week stage race that Pogacar is not in. Tough year, but until he truly fails hard at a targeted race when he isn't injured, I'm keeping him in.

I love Wout, but he is out. His win in Paris shows he still has it in him when healthy, but it's been too long without a big classics win. Mads doesn't actually win any of his targets, so he is out. Del Toro folded so badly in the Giro that it can't possibly balance out the other good things he did this year, plus he didn't win anything big. Lipowitz definitely not there, Onley not there, Seixas, etc.

I think there is an >80% chance of at least one of the following happening though:

1. Del Toro breaks into the Big 6
2. Wout restores his place in the Big 6
3. Roglic drops out of the Big 6

This is so true it isnt a mere opinion, but pure facts.

 

[CyclistAbi]

For sure. We need more on-point conversations about how Roglic might win the Giro and podium the Tour.

I haven't mentioned Rogla in this thread for months and then you go and make such compelling argument favouring Rogla. Fair enough i'll see you and raise you Remco can do that too, possibly Lipo included too.

UAE boys hence should indeed get bullied much. We'll see.

 

[red_flanders]

I haven't mentioned Rogla in this thread for months ...

It's definitely hard to follow since you bring him into almost every thread in the forum.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's definitely hard to follow since you bring him into almost every thread in the forum.

And in the ones i don't, you do. Good team work here.

 

[KZD]

The big 6 is an outdated concept. It made sense back in 2022 or 2023 when Pogačar was still beatable even on races that suit him and Van Aert and Roglič were still in their prime, Right now, it makes more sense to talk about tiers.

Tier 1: Pogačar
Tier 2: Vingegaard, Van der Poel, Evenepoel
Tier 3: Roglič, Almeida, Del Toro, Pidcock, Pedersen, Van Aert

 

[hayneplane]

The big 6 is an outdated concept. It made sense back in 2022 or 2023 when Pogačar was still beatable even on races that suit him and Van Aert and Roglič were still in their prime, Right now, it makes more sense to talk about tiers.

Tier 1: Pogačar
Tier 2: Vingegaard, Van der Poel, Evenepoel
Tier 3: Roglič, Almeida, Del Toro, Pidcock, Pedersen, Van Aert

I would put Van Der Poel on his own in Tier 2 and bump everyone else down a notch on the basis that he is the only rider still favoured to beat Pogacar on any monument, grand tour or road racing championship with MSR and PR being the specific examples.

 

[Netserk]

I would put Van Der Poel on his own in Tier 2 and bump everyone else down a notch on the basis that he is the only rider still favoured to beat Pogacar on any monument, grand tour or road racing championship with MSR and PR being the specific examples.

Making Pogi the standard by which to judge the rest (and thus only include Roubaix as a relevant race this year), shouldn't you also have Evenepoel in tier 2 as he beats him in ITTs?

Merlier should also be in a tier above Vingegaard.

 

[AmRacer]

Making Pogi the standard by which to judge the rest (and thus only include Roubaix as a relevant race this year), shouldn't you also have Evenepoel in tier 2 as he beats him in ITTs?

Merlier should also be in a tier above Vingegaard.

It depends on how you rate ITT vs RR

 

[Red Rick]

Vingegaard and Van der Poel are both specialists, but Van der Poel's specialization just happens to not completely overlap with Pogacar.

In my view, Van der Poel is not better in his own field than Vingegaard, and therefor I disagree that he is deserving of his own tier.

Then, an argument can be made that Evenepoel doesn't belong in this tier because ITT championships do not contain tier 1 races and he isn't in the Vingegaard level in Grand Tours, but I think his relative dominance in hilly monuments is enough over the rest of the field minus Pogacar he gets in. He should really start racing RVV and Sanremo though.

 

[dobrien]

I would put Van Der Poel on his own in Tier 2 and bump everyone else down a notch on the basis that he is the only rider still favoured to beat Pogacar on any monument, grand tour or road racing championship with MSR and PR being the specific examples.

I do agree MVDP is alone in Tier 2, but I would definitely no longer say MVDP is 'favoured' to beat Pog at either of those races. But for an overcooked corner Pog would have given the much more experienced Mathieu everything he could have handled and maybe then some in his FIRST ever PR; barring disaster I'd bet my house on Pog soloing into the velodrome in the Rainbow jersey next spring. Maybe MSR isn't quite hard enough for Pog to get rid of everyone so that one may prove more elusive, but after watching Pog this year I honestly would put nothing past him at this point and unlike MVDP Pog is still in his prime years, and is so far ahead of everyone else in GTs and hilly classics can afford to fully focus on the 2 big races missing from his palmares. Obviously these races are more of a lottery so I give MVDP much more chance of winning these two over Vinge beating Pog in a GT, which is why I'd have Vinge still in Tier 3.

I think Vinge's ship has sailed for any GT with Pog in it.

I say none of the above as a blind Pogi fanboy, it's just how good I think he is.

Hopefully Remco can find that old '19 year old kid who won CSS' magic again at RBH and get himself into Tier 2 for races like LBL, but that's about it imho unless one of the younger up and coming guys takes the next step, and until Pog starts his decline.

It depends on how you rate ITT vs RR

Not super highly.

Just my .02.