The Boogie confesses

[DirtyWorks]

Wait, my point is not that he didn't earn it, but rather that it wasn't the sudden transformation you'd expect from a 26-year-old who gets on EPO for the first time.

His response to EPO probably wasn't great then. I don't have any links handy, but I believe JV1973, as an example, said it didn't do much for him.

Also, as noted in some other thread, my understanding of the way EPO works he'd want to take it before a Grand Tour anyway. The positive effects follow-on sometime later. So, it's not like doing stimulants/pain killers.

It seems to me, the guy was doping, but relative to some, not much. Since he's in a sport where the federation enables doping, I can imagine him having a pretty clear conscience about the whole thing. The federation has created a crazy environment.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Wait, my point is not that he didn't earn it, but rather that it wasn't the sudden transformation you'd expect from a 26-year-old who gets on EPO for the first time. I see his progression from 1997 to 1998 as quite logical and linear, which is what doesn't add up with his claim that he did EPO for the first time for the 1998 season.

You seem to have misread the bad translation. Boogerd stated he went on the EPO in the winter of 1997, that means in late 1996.

But, just like you, I do not believe this. He was already on EPO in 1996. Maybe not as hardcore but hey, there were guys riding at 64% in that Tour...

Rabo were very 'active' that Tour in 1996. Without extra aid they would not have driven around like that imho.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't see how a cyclist can make a difference and change that situation, when the teams, the cyclists and the uci aren't interested, capable or motivated to change the situation.

+1

IMHO, for mostly healthy people, you end up with these wierd rationalizations like Boogerd's where down is up and it all makes sense inside the broken system. But, saying it out loud anywhere else and it only looks like nonsense.

 

[WinterRider]

His response to EPO probably wasn't great then. I don't have any links handy, but I believe JV1973, as an example, said it didn't do much for him.

Also, as noted in some other thread, my understanding of the way EPO works he'd want to take it before a Grand Tour anyway. The positive effects follow-on sometime later. So, it's not like doing stimulants/pain killers.

It seems to me, the guy was doping, but relative to some, not much. Since he's in a sport where the federation enables doping, I can imagine him having a pretty clear conscience about the whole thing. The federation has created a crazy environment.

JV had a naturally high hematocrit (over 50). Boogard had a naturally low hematocrit (mentioned as 39 up thread somewhere). For Boogard, EPO would most likely have been the equivalent of rocket fuel.

 

[DirtyWorks]

JV had a naturally high hematocrit (over 50). Boogard had a naturally low hematocrit (mentioned as 39 up thread somewhere). For Boogard, EPO would most likely have been the equivalent of rocket fuel.

Again, you are assuming the EPO would work like it did with Wonderboy. Time and again, it's been said by confessed dealers that doping is finding the right combination for maximum response. Finding the right combination takes time.

Maybe it was the case Boogerd didn't take EPO to life-threatening levels. Unless we have more information, it's important to keep a range of possibilities open.

 

[Escarabajo]

What about the story in which, during a Tour de France, he showed Landis his arms with the needle marks implying that he had a transfusion. Then he went wink wink with his eyes to Landis. So that was not trainning like he is implying in his confession.

I knew I didn't dream it.

Landis told Kimmage that he had a blood transfusion done during the Tour, and it resulted in a bruise on his arm. “The next day I rode alongside Michael Boogerd and he pointed to my arm. Then he pointed to his arm and he made a gesture of: 'I have the exact same thing',” he told the former Sunday Times writer.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/landis-on-boogerd-now-whos-the-jellyfish

 

[Frosty]

O/T but i quite liked this cheeky comment from Landis

“I’m looking forward to Pereiro’s half confession one of these days as well,” Landis said.

 

[ElChingon]

I agree he raced clean!

He only doped after the stages till before the stages started, so raced clean.

Agh man these guys need to start a comedy show, they always come up with the funniest excuses.

 

[arjanh]

O/T but i quite liked this cheeky comment from Landis

“I’m looking forward to Pereiro’s half confession one of these days as well,” Landis said.

Yes! I'm liking Landis more and more.

When Landis implicated Boogerd in his confession, I immediately believed him. His confession was so concise, if he hadn't been sure whether it was Boogerd, he wouldn't have mentioned his name. And since then, Boogerd's denials became more and more laughable.

 

[D-Queued]

I agree he raced clean!

He only doped after the stages till before the stages started, so raced clean.

Agh man these guys need to start a comedy show, they always come up with the funniest excuses.

Exactly.

'I only doped when I was training for the race.'

That is even dumber than a Vanishing Twin.

Dave.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It was a lame admission I must say. Of course he feels a victim. It is pretty clear to me pro - cyclists have serious mental problems.

On the other hand he looked a vulnerable kid who got caught in the cookie jar.

 

[Frosty]

So has the interview been aired yet?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Yes.

The funniest thing was he told no one helped him, he did it all on his own. He went shopping for EPO himself. He learned himself how to administer the right dosis etc etc. Journalist forgot to ask how he did the bloodbags himself...

He had a reference to la Fleche Walonne 1994 and that's why he went eventually on the EPO, now, look at this result:
http://www.sportuitslagen.org/wielr...n-s2-c0-b0-g22-t1363-u26-m46640-v1.html#46640

I see some pretty clean riders minutes in front of clean Boogerd there.

 

[Frosty]

What did he say about HumanPlasma?

 

[skimazk]

that he went to austria a couple of times. period. no names, no dates. No periods where he did or didn't use.

as he stated he was not raised to be a collaborator / snitch and will not talk openly or anonymously about names, dates and places. Despite knowing this will probably give a more severe penalty.

 

[iejeecee]

The funniest thing was he told no one helped him, he did it all on his own. He went shopping for EPO himself. He learned himself how to administer the right dosis etc etc. Journalist forgot to ask how he did the bloodbags himself...

It's funny how he contradicted Danny Nelissen on that point. Even went as far as to call him a liar.

.....can't..... stop....the....lying...... ngggggggg

Also on how he got the knowledge to correctly use epo:

"Well it was common knowledge in the peleton, riders discussed these things among each other"

On there being a doping culture at rabobank:

"I saw no evidence of that, we did not speak about such things"

OK!

 

[Frosty]

as he stated he was not raised to be a collaborator / snitch and will not talk openly or anonymously about names, dates and places. Despite knowing this will probably give a more severe penalty.

Was he raised to make lots of money through cheating and lying?

 

[Kender]

Landis is tranqillo.

This leaves him in a position to sit back and have fun with all the new confessions that come out that confirm everything he has said since he came clean. love how he brings up reminders to those that commented against him when he confessed

 

[Cloxxki]

that he went to austria a couple of times. period. no names, no dates. No periods where he did or didn't use.

as he stated he was not raised to be a collaborator / snitch and will not talk openly or anonymously about names, dates and places. Despite knowing this will probably give a more severe penalty.

It's already come out, apparently Steeple Chase runner Simon Vroemen (already had a doping ban for metandiënon, national fed looked real bad in his case) brought Boogie and the Rabo's in contact with Matschiner and Human Plasma.
At my club I heard first hand that Vroemen unsollicitedly handed Matschiners phone number to unsuspecting young track athletes. Vroemen is a dope pimp, or what's the word for that. Still wins the national steeple chase champs at well over 40, with a face that screams HGH. And there's much much worse in that guy's story, out in the open. Totally beloved in the sport of course. Doesn't even need the money, always had a great job. Smart guy, just plain stupid with PR. Got into doping discussions on forums, so unwise.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

'I only doped when I was training for the race.'

That is even dumber than a Vanishing Twin.

Seems dumb to us, but unfortunately to much of the general public who aren't conversant in such things they may easily swallow this excuse whole, without realizing the contradiction that if doping in training between competitions doesn't affect one's ability to race, then why bother to dope in training at all? It's blindingly obvious here while preaching to the choir, but probably goes a long way toward pacifying a general audience on national TV in the local country.

 

[Roninho]

+1

IMHO, for mostly healthy people, you end up with these wierd rationalizations like Boogerd's where down is up and it all makes sense inside the broken system. But, saying it out loud anywhere else and it only looks like nonsense.

Yep. In his confession interview on tv yesterday they asked if he he had any regrets. One of the main regrets he said he had was that he didnt step up during his career and end it all. First of all i understand that saying things like this is something that helps him pr-wise, but let's face it how could he have done that? No way that other riders, teams and the UCI would have joined him in let's say 2002 and come clean together.
2ndly, the 'funny' thing is that if he really regretted not coming clean, then why this semi-confession without really opening up? Imo again the same reason: Apart from bringing a few indivuals into trouble it won't solve anything in the sport, and he knows it.

 

[coinneach]

Yep. In his confession interview on tv yesterday they asked if he he had any regrets. One of the main regrets he said he had was that he didnt step up during his career and end it all. First of all i understand that saying things like this is something that helps him pr-wise, but let's face it how could he have done that? No way that other riders, teams and the UCI would have joined him in let's say 2002 and come clean together.
2ndly, the 'funny' thing is that if he really regretted not coming clean, then why this semi-confession without really opening up? Imo again the same reason: Apart from bringing a few indivuals into trouble it won't solve anything in the sport, and he knows it.

You think not opening up and not naming names will solve anything?

 

[Benito]

He had a reference to la Fleche Walonne 1994 and that's why he went eventually on the EPO, now, look at this result:
http://www.sportuitslagen.org/wielr...n-s2-c0-b0-g22-t1363-u26-m46640-v1.html#46640

I see some pretty clean riders minutes in front of clean Boogerd there.

That's funny when I run through the same list almost every rider I see is in all likelihood an doping-offender.

 

[arjanh]

I agree he raced clean!

He only doped after the stages till before the stages started, so raced clean.

Agh man these guys need to start a comedy show, they always come up with the funniest excuses.

Didn't Thomas Dekker used a similar excuse? Must've become a stock phrase in the Rabo team....

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's funny when I run through the same list almost every rider I see is in all likelihood an doping-offender.

Look closer; van Lancker, Bouwmans, Roossen, Dekker, Kvalsvoll all top 25.

Boogerd was 5 minutes down on them, shows his talent?