The Bot logic thread

[thehog]

Some classic quotes defending Sky seen around the traps, important to collate them in one thread. Scary times out there:

Graham McWilliam has tweeted his 100% support for Brailsford and the team. And he's the one that matters.

Two things i get from this non story - Sky will learn to keep records better, and reliability of peoples cynicism. Precisely for reasons that the lot of you with pitchforks are raging, it is very unlikely that SKY are actually doping. 'Medias' need to feed you is too great, and their money would be too big to pass up for anyone who have left Sky so far - had they witnessed any wrong doing.

BBC Sports Breaking News

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39198422

Only it isn't breaking news - Nothing new there. Not sure why this warrants headline status unless the BBC are about to deliver a killer blow.

Looking at the BBC's cycling page, is Dan Roan and co getting paid extra for the BC/Sky articles that they write? No mention of any actual racing other than a couple of articles on the Para Track Worlds. In the past there would have been write ups on the beginning of the Classics season, Paris Nice etc. I can only assume they have sacked their cycling reporters.

Roan's as bad as Lawton. Neither seem capable or interested in actual investigative journalism. Why bother, when you can just sling mud around and watch the masses lap it up.

Well that's a pretty concrete rebuttal from Sky.

My impressions:
Some stuff I didn't know about flumicil
Some stuff I didn't know about prescriptions in France
Language is very much "throw-the-doc-under-the-death-star". It seems it's hard to get reliable details out of him "we believe he uses it in his practice.." (should have been easy for him to confirm), "according to Dr. Freeman..." (he said this but we cant verify it's true)

The whole Dropbox thing is actually very believable - who hasn't worked with someone that forgets to update documents on a shared drive? Especially when they're busy with everything else that's their "real" job. I bloody hate it, and it's password policy....

I would've agreed with your last comment if the message was robustly informed and based in fact. Thing is, it isn't. I'm not even sure what the Daily Mail's 'message' is -they have simply made a series of hearsay accusations and cherry-picked elements of the case/story to suit their own agenda. Personally, I think Lawton himself is amazed that his tenuous tabloid hatchet job has grown legs to the degree it has. And whilst his 'scoop' maintains his profile, he'll keep on picking at the scab. His latest 'revelation' that the Sky riders were subject to a three-line whip and somehow forced to tweet support to Dave B and were threated with redundancy is lamentable. Even by his standards.

 

[thehog]

:lol:

He transformed UK cycling and in the face of immense doubt from the majority of the cycling world he explained it all away with the aggregation of marginal gains. Oh how we laughed when he told the French that our wheels were rounder.

So in his magical production line from Hoy to Kenny (x2) through Wiggins what % of doubt do we each personally apply to each performance/competitor.

For myself I believed in Wiggins/Froome because I believed in Brailsford and if he was in on it then the whole thing was a sham. Post the TUE revelations this story has snowballed and so has my belief in the honesty of the achievements of all at British Cycling.

Blaming the Daily Mail is just shooting the messenger.

If Team Sky were Team Guardian, or Team Tesco, does anyone think the pack dogs at the Mail would have moved on by now?
Surely there's an element here of the Mail using Team Sky as a pawn in the war they have with the Murdoch empire.

I'm fed up these 'sources' never being identified and the constant issuing of speculation and innuendo from them. Sure Sky have had their shovels out and handled this terribly but it is so typical of the gutter press in Britain to jump on the successful coat tails, drag everything to a halt and then do everything they can to destroy the success in their pursuit of a tasty one liner.

 

[thehog]

:surprised:

Angry words..

Im with you B on this one...TOTALLY!!

As a nation we crave success, we put our hearts/souls behind national teams, we love the queen, we simply enjoy seeing the country represented well...BUT what happens after the wins/the accolades..the press/media seem to develop some strange agenda whereby it appears that once we have had the carnival, then it's time to reveal some dirt!
It's not a new phenomenon by any means..look at the muck raking surrounding Diana, it started soon after her death and goes on to this day, our press simply seem unable to stop themselves trying to destroy anything that appears good.
I am a BIG believer in freedom for the press, there are some VERY big totally relevant stories that have been uncovered by good, hardworking, basically honest journalists...HOWEVER, it is now 2017, news is not news unless someone tweets it, Facebooks it, actually, and I never get this, sends a "home phone clip" during the storm/gunfight, whatever..you get the picture.
We are fed our news, and we are manipulated into thinking/believing what the media want to deliver, the "NEWS" as it is reported now is throwaway sound bites, delivered as fact..and people move on so quickly all they remember/think is true, is the headline..the strap line on a webpage, the 140 characters in a tweet, and it becomes the truth.
EVERYTHING surrounding the team Sky issue has on the surface at least, been smoke/mirrors..nobody, and I will nail my colors to the mast here....NOBODY has found any genuine documentary/video/imagery proof of any of the wild allegations being bandied about, or if they have, its being held back as the ace up the sleeve!!
I for one do not condone ANY cheating in sport, but if you are going to take down/topple a team, and ruin MANY people's livelihoods then in all truth...you better be really really certain of the "facts" that you keep pushing, because I for one, and it appears Bompington thinks the same am not comfortable at all with the assassination of peoples character/achievements simply to feed the press circus.
It goes beyond whether Sir DB resigns...I started the thread, and truthfully I want him to stay, I also want him to stand up, and openly admit they have had a 4yr old in charge of their admin/press team as well, because the team have draw a lot of the heat onto themselves, but that DOES NOT make them guilty of the claims being levelled by the Daily Mail and others who appear hell bent on destroying the entire team.
If, in the next few weeks the proof is delivered then I would gladly, but with a heavy heart accept that they have behaved badly, if however on the other hand, as appears to be how it's playing out..there is no hard/concrete evidence then there needs to be a complete total apology from the Daily Mail and its other supporters for their behaviour.
I hazard a guess there will be no definitive outcome to any of the committees/panels etc etc and all that will happen is we will all slowly forget about it, and the next big scandal will develop and the DM will move along to destroy the next person who falls into their sights, to fuel the need for "news" in the modern era!
Thats it...my soapbox is well and truly away now....I just had to vent...I think I had far too much caffeine too early!!!

 

[Benotti69]

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

 

[thehog]

I'm no Sky fan boi :lol:

I'm not sure the Mail have even gone as far as making accusations. They've just been insinuating, because in 2017 that's all you need to do. If they had any evidence of anything wrong happening I'm sure they'd have printed it before someone else beat them to it.

I'm no Sky fan boi. But I can't stand the tabloid media and their constant need to create scandal, no matter what the fallout for those involved.

 

[Dan2016]

The need to believe is very strong.

Are we just the same in our non-belief? Is it just the same thing in reverse?

Is this need to believe in sport the inevitable result of the death of God in the West?



edit: I just fancied editing

 

[thehog]

Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

It's actually comedy gold but they are so wound up and serious that it's the media fault for printing fake news!

 

[burning]

I feel like these guys/bots are even more boneheaded than the USPS guys, but I might be wrong as I was not a frequent netizen back then.

To be fair, I think that nothing major will happen with Sky while Froome is still riding, they will manage to cover up this nicely.

 

[blackcat]

I'm no Sky fan boi :lol:

I'm not sure the Mail have even gone as far as making accusations. They've just been insinuating, because in 2017 that's all you need to do. If they had any evidence of anything wrong happening I'm sure they'd have printed it before someone else beat them to it.

I'm no Sky fan boi. But I can't stand the tabloid media and their constant need to create scandal, no matter what the fallout for those involved.

I'm not a racist but,

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

The similarities to the Armstrong days are really quite striking.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

Interns?

No, there are professional companies that do it for anyone who will pay. In fact it's so common that there is a large number of companies in that line of work nowadays.

Know a guy who was employed at one. You're given a briefing on the subject, instructions on how to derail every different point that might be raised and you're "let loose" on specific forums/boards. It's literally a job now.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

The similarities to the Armstrong days are really quite striking.

"But Lance failed tests and everyone knew he was doping.

There is nothing against Sky, even after all these years. Only in the assylum where digger and co continue to embarrass themselves"

#Botlogic

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

Interns?

No, there are professional companies that do it for anyone who will pay. In fact it's so common that there is a large number of companies in that line of work nowadays.

Know a guy who was employed at one. You're given a briefing on the subject, instructions on how to derail every different point that might be raised and you're "let loose" on specific forums/boards. It's literally a job now.

Jesus Christ! Good anecdote. I didn't know real people in real companies were doing that professionally nowadays. Thought it was all bots.
It must be mostly bots, surely? Another good honest job that's being mechanised!
'Computational Propaganda'. The bot is impossible to distinguish from a real person online. Used in political elections etc. No surprises if Sky are doing it.
http://www.topbots.com/can-bots-manipulate-public-opinion/

 

[King Boonen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s9M-52fRGU

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

The similarities to the Armstrong days are really quite striking.

"But Lance failed tests and everyone knew he was doping.

There is nothing against Sky, even after all these years. Only in the assylum where digger and co continue to embarrass themselves"

#Botlogic

Lol! #botlogic :lol:

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

Interns?

No, there are professional companies that do it for anyone who will pay. In fact it's so common that there is a large number of companies in that line of work nowadays.

Know a guy who was employed at one. You're given a briefing on the subject, instructions on how to derail every different point that might be raised and you're "let loose" on specific forums/boards. It's literally a job now.

Jesus Christ! Good anecdote. I didn't know real people in real companies were doing that professionally nowadays. Thought it was all bots.
It must be mostly bots, surely? Another good honest job that's being mechanised!
'Computational Propaganda'. The bot is impossible to distinguish from a real person online. Used in political elections etc. No surprises if Sky are doing it.
http://www.topbots.com/can-bots-manipulate-public-opinion/

Super interesting.

I don't think the ones that came on here were bots though. The study says Bots fool people 30% of the time, so they aren't that advanced.

People like vickers took this way to personally. They kept coming back under different accounts and sending threats through pms.

That's comforting, to know that vickers and co are real people, and that they are watching their beloved God's Wiggins, Brailsford and co go through this sky fall, feeling helpless.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

Interns?

No, there are professional companies that do it for anyone who will pay. In fact it's so common that there is a large number of companies in that line of work nowadays.

Know a guy who was employed at one. You're given a briefing on the subject, instructions on how to derail every different point that might be raised and you're "let loose" on specific forums/boards. It's literally a job now.

Some of them must be interns! Jeez some of the logic applied to the discussions a commodore64 would've been embarrassed by!

But yep it would appear from day 1 Brailsford like the USPS model and thought if not for Lance's narcissim they would've got away with it!

So Brailsford introduced the upgrade UKpostal 1.0, then hired Leinders for UKPostal 2.0, then Froome upgraded it again for UKPostal3.0, looks like the bugs in 2.0 were not sorted!

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

Interns?

No, there are professional companies that do it for anyone who will pay. In fact it's so common that there is a large number of companies in that line of work nowadays.

Know a guy who was employed at one. You're given a briefing on the subject, instructions on how to derail every different point that might be raised and you're "let loose" on specific forums/boards. It's literally a job now.

Jesus Christ! Good anecdote. I didn't know real people in real companies were doing that professionally nowadays. Thought it was all bots.
It must be mostly bots, surely? Another good honest job that's being mechanised!
'Computational Propaganda'. The bot is impossible to distinguish from a real person online. Used in political elections etc. No surprises if Sky are doing it.
http://www.topbots.com/can-bots-manipulate-public-opinion/

Super interesting.

I don't think the ones that came on here were bots though. The study says Bots fool people 30% of the time, so they aren't that advanced.

People like vickers took this way to personally. They kept coming back under different accounts and sending threats through pms.

That's comforting, to know that vickers and co are real people, and that they are watching their beloved God's Wiggins, Brailsford and co go through this sky fall, feeling helpless.

From what he tells me, most eventually quit because by making it your 8 hour a day job to argue on a subject, you become passionate and stressed about it even if you know nothing of it.

At first he thought it was bizarre, people would just up and quit with alarming frequency citing that reason and he thought it was just an excuse. Then it happened to him.

At first he was paid to go to certain political forums and defend Israel's foreign policy. As a last resort, accuse anyone saying anything negative about Israel's foreign policy of being antisemitic. He's very apolitical, couldn't care less about foreign policy of any country. After two months he asked to be switched to something else because it consumed his life. He joked to me that at that point he'd become "a defender of the cause".

So he gets switched to a different client, something extremely inane and unimportant. Some videogame company, to post positive stuff about their interests and defend them from accusations of putting out unfinished games.
Guess what, a month later he quit when he realized he was starting to get emotionally attached to a videogame company of all things.

So yeah, those people end up really drinking the kool-aid just by being submerged in it all day.

 

[thehog]

#botlogic - testosterone is not a PED :lol:

Is testosterone that much of a game changer though. It doesn't make riders that much better - it's more for recovery. So it won't make that much difference to your earning potential - unlike EPO.

Because no one really needs a recovery aid riding a 3000km bike race do they?

 

[thehog]

Nothing new, always nothing new

I read the interview and, once again, there is nothing new. Just Kimmage being Kimmage.......raging against everything. of course he, like everyone, is entitled to their opinion. But what bugs me with him (and others) is the vociferous claims that Sky are 'at it', but he doesn't have the balls to elaborate on what doping practices he thinks (or knows) they are engaging in. He just rages about how Sky are not as white as they said they were. And how its impossible for Wiggins to go from being in the autobus to a Tour winner in a matter of few years...

And Wiggins autobus to GT winner

 

[thehog]

You see it was the passport that allowed Wiggins to go from aurobus to GT winner :lol:

Which says as much about Kimmage understanding of Wiggins goal-orientated mindset / motivation as it does about Wiggins abilities or otherwise.
In '06, '07 etc Wiggins had a road contract to a) earn a bit of cash and b) get some miles in as a base for the Track. Despite his tendency to re-write history - 'it was always the Giro that captured my imagination' , 'Paris-Roubaix has always been the race for me' etc., he showed v little true interest in achieving a lot on the road, outside of a TDF prologue in his home city. Once he'd retired from the Track, and post the passport coming in as pointed out above which timed quite nicely for him, he found he could do something on the road. And make some decent £££.

In his own mind Kimmage was a TDF contender, if it hadn't been for those pesky drugs cheats. That's why he was in the autobus. Not because he didn't have the same ability as a multiple Olympic champion, of course not....

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Looks like they been ripping of USPostalisms from back in the day when public Strategies had a load of interns flood the comments and forums.

Shoot the messengers.

Interns?

No, there are professional companies that do it for anyone who will pay. In fact it's so common that there is a large number of companies in that line of work nowadays.

Know a guy who was employed at one. You're given a briefing on the subject, instructions on how to derail every different point that might be raised and you're "let loose" on specific forums/boards. It's literally a job now.

Jesus Christ! Good anecdote. I didn't know real people in real companies were doing that professionally nowadays. Thought it was all bots.
It must be mostly bots, surely? Another good honest job that's being mechanised!
'Computational Propaganda'. The bot is impossible to distinguish from a real person online. Used in political elections etc. No surprises if Sky are doing it.
http://www.topbots.com/can-bots-manipulate-public-opinion/

Super interesting.

I don't think the ones that came on here were bots though. The study says Bots fool people 30% of the time, so they aren't that advanced.

People like vickers took this way to personally. They kept coming back under different accounts and sending threats through pms.

That's comforting, to know that vickers and co are real people, and that they are watching their beloved God's Wiggins, Brailsford and co go through this sky fall, feeling helpless.

From what he tells me, most eventually quit because by making it your 8 hour a day job to argue on a subject, you become passionate and stressed about it even if you know nothing of it.

At first he thought it was bizarre, people would just up and quit with alarming frequency citing that reason and he thought it was just an excuse. Then it happened to him.

At first he was paid to go to certain political forums and defend Israel's foreign policy. As a last resort, accuse anyone saying anything negative about Israel's foreign policy of being antisemitic. He's very apolitical, couldn't care less about foreign policy of any country. After two months he asked to be switched to something else because it consumed his life. He joked to me that at that point he'd become "a defender of the cause".

So he gets switched to a different client, something extremely inane and unimportant. Some videogame company, to post positive stuff about their interests and defend them from accusations of putting out unfinished games.
Guess what, a month later he quit when he realized he was starting to get emotionally attached to a videogame company of all things.

So yeah, those people end up really drinking the kool-aid just by being submerged in it all day.

most remember a few from Dailypeloton.

V, C.H, SinA, H, B or H or HdS.

everyone remembers them. They were shockers and Lance homers, and they full well knew the score.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

So yeah, those people end up really drinking the kool-aid just by being submerged in it all day.

Whilst obviously more more serious than cycling, the "big lie, repeated often" premise is once again shown to be accurate.

 

[thehog]

#botlogic - testosterone is not a PED :lol:

Is testosterone that much of a game changer though. It doesn't make riders that much better - it's more for recovery. So it won't make that much difference to your earning potential - unlike EPO.

Because no one really needs a recovery aid riding a 3000km bike race do they?

This is my favourite one, it's the "everyone was doing it" / "level playing field" argument. That's where bots are at now.

 

[Benotti69]

#botlogic - testosterone is not a PED :lol:

Is testosterone that much of a game changer though. It doesn't make riders that much better - it's more for recovery. So it won't make that much difference to your earning potential - unlike EPO.

Because no one really needs a recovery aid riding a 3000km bike race do they?

This is my favourite one, it's the "everyone was doing it" / "level playing field" argument. That's where bots are at now.

But Wiggins "Never tested positive" and his "credibilty" is Sky high