The Chicken will confess today

[Tinman]

Not having been familiar with his nickname "the chicken" it occurred to me that Rasmussen's physique is quite similar to Wiggins'. And as such the thread caught my interest .

There seems to be something about EPO optimal physique vs. the (presumed) EPO free (clean) physique. EPO riders these days seem to be able to go faster with less muscle mass. In the post LA era chickens seem to rule (refer Wiggins / Froome / Contador).

 

[neineinei]

Berto and Cadel can rest easy. They were at the same level as Levi in the 2007 Tour. Levi has fessed up to his doping, but was clean by 2007, so Berto and Cadel were clearly riding clean as well in 2007.

Never mind the humor, but Levi has admitted to have blood doped for the 2007 TdF.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Leipheimer,+Levi,+Affidavit.pdf page 11

In April of 2007 at the Tour of Georgia I asked Johan Bruyneel whether the team was going to organize a blood doping program for the 2007 Tour de France. Johan responded, "you'r a pro, you should do it on your own." I told Johan, however, that it was too stressful and that without team assistance I would not be using blood at the 2007 Tour. Johan seemed upset by my response.

More than once thereafter Johan brought up whether I was going to organize my own blood program for the 2007 Tour, and I told him that I was not going to do it.

During the 2007 Dauphiné Libéré, which took place from June 10 to June 17 2007, Johan again brought up the topic of organizing a blood program for the 2007 Tour, and this time said, "I think we can make it work."

After the Dauphiné Pepe Marti extracted a bag of blood from me. Prior to the Tour I had to go to an apartment in France to have another bag extracted and the the blood extracted after the Dauphiné was reinfused.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I cannot recall JV claiming everything stopped in 2006, 2008 or whenever. His mantra is, cycling is getting cleaner and clean riders have more chance to win races, even GTs.

USADA affdavits one and all mention 2006 as the year they stopped doping.

Here's what JV says about when doping stopped:

My opinion? Ricco is a good example. A guy who kept at it, hard core, long after most others had called a truce. That's just my opinion and its very subjective.

He was ejected from the 2008 Tour de France for doping violations and suspended.

JV, you are the expert here.

Snort.

 

[Cookster15]

I'm picking Contador and Evans will feel slightly awkward at hearing that. Both have got some explaining to do.

That's not how I recall it. Evans was 3+ minutes down when Rasmussen got pulled after the Aubisque stage. Without the dope I doubt if Rasmussen would have been within 3 minutes. Until 2007 Rasmussen was just KOM stage hunter, nobody considered him a serious GC threat. I remember that Tour well and Evans was suffering like a dog to hang with Rasmussen and AC in the mountains - particularly the Pyrenees. In fact of those 3 he was the only one who looked absolutely stuffed at MTFs. If Evans was doping then he was on low grade fuel. Even in their MTB days Evans never gave Chicken a 2nd thought. Then in 2007, whoa! In fact, in hindsight, Chicken's sudden rise seemed remarkably similar to Bernard Kohl's in the following year.

 

[hrotha]

USADA affdavits one and all mention 2006 as the year they stopped doping.

Here's what JV says about when doping stopped:

I always thought folks took that quote too literally, conveniently forgetting the so-called "truce" was opposed to Riccò's "hard core" ways. I always took it to mean most people toned it down with the introduction of the biological passport, unlike Riccò, Sella, Schumacher and others who didn't get the memo and were busted due to their carelessness.

Some forumers consistently misrepresent that as if JV had said the peloton got together and signed a treaty or something.

 

[spalco]

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1911365.ece

According to this, the Chicken did the 2007 Tour on 5 blood bags, 100,000 units of epo, cortisone and growth hormone.

Having just re-watched that tour, I can believe it.

That's completely crazy if true. How can you even withdraw 2.5 litres of blood within a couple months and still compete/train hard at the same time? Or did he prepare for years for this, switching bags regularly?

eta: or maybe a "bag" is not necessarily half a litre here.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I always thought folks took that quote too literally, conveniently forgetting the so-called "truce" was opposed to Riccò's "hard core" ways. I always took it to mean most people toned it down with the introduction of the biological passport, unlike Riccò, Sella, Schumacher and others who didn't get the memo and were busted due to their carelessness.

Some forumers consistently misrepresent that as if JV had said the peloton got together and signed a treaty or something.

I meant it exactly the way JV wrote it - most (not all) people called a (verbal or implicit) truce.

I have not seen it misrepresented anywhere.

Perhaps you detect derision and cynicism and that affects the tone in which posts mentioning it are read.

 

[neineinei]

http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/medie-rasmussen-udleverer-andre-dopere

According to DR Sporten Rasmussen has been talking to the Danish Anti-doping authority. He will tell "all" and name other riders. And get a reduced ban (two years). We'll see in an hour or so.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I meant it exactly the way JV wrote it - most (not all) people called a (verbal or implicit) truce.

Not sure you fully understand what 'literally' means.

 

[Lanark]

That's not how I recall it. Evans was 3+ minutes down when Rasmussen got pulled after the Aubisque stage. Without the dope I doubt if Rasmussen would have been within 3 minutes. Until 2007 Rasmussen was just KOM stage hunter, nobody considered him a serious GC threat. I remember that Tour well and Evans was suffering like a dog to hang with Rasmussen and AC in the mountains - particularly the Pyrenees. In fact of those 3 he was the only one who looked absolutely stuffed at MTFs. If Evans was doping then he was on low grade fuel. Even in their MTB days Evans never gave Chicken a 2nd thought. Then in 2007, whoa! In fact, in hindsight, Chicken's sudden rise seemed remarkably similar to Bernard Kohl's in the following year.

Only to people who hadn't been paying attention in the previous years. In 2005 he was probably just as good as in 2007, if he hadn't crashed thrice (which had nothing to do with fysical capabilities) in the last timetrial he would have easily been 4th in that Tour, the top-3 of the 2005 Tour weren't participating in the 2007 Tour.

 

[Mr.38%]

That's completely crazy if true. How can you even withdraw 2.5 litres of blood within a couple months and still compete/train hard at the same time? Or did he prepare for years for this, switching bags regularly?

eta: or maybe a "bag" is not necessarily half a litre here.

EPO, lots of it. Duck and dodge.

A bag is a bag.

 

[neineinei]

The Danish Sports Federation and Anti-Doping Denmark has announced a press conference at 15.30.

http://www.dr.dk/Sporten/Cykling/2013/01/31/074706.htm

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Never mind the humor, but Levi has admitted to have blood doped for the 2007 TdF.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Leipheimer,+Levi,+Affidavit.pdf page 11

Thanks. I'd not seen that before and was relying on interpretations from various other sources that Levi said he stopped doping in 2006.

His 2007 and 2008 performances seem more consistent with him having carried on longer than that!

 

[kottila]

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1911365.ece

According to this, the Chicken did the 2007 Tour on 5 blood bags, 100,000 units of epo, cortisone and growth hormone.

Having just re-watched that tour, I can believe it.

But his increase in blood values during the tour was a result of dehydration, not doping

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That's completely crazy if true. How can you even withdraw 2.5 litres of blood within a couple months and still compete/train hard at the same time? Or did he prepare for years for this, switching bags regularly?

They start training for the Tour in November of the year before.

That's 8 months to get the blood ready. Plenty of time.

 

[Ferminal]

Never mind the humor, but Levi has admitted to have blood doped for the 2007 TdF.

http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/Leipheimer,+Levi,+Affidavit.pdf page 11

Levi took one bag and it was prior to the race?

Doesn't seem to correlate well with the magical performance of his in the 3rd week.

Edit: sorry misread it...

So it was only one bag, but some time during the race (presumably 3rd week).

 

[weeniebeenie]

I always thought folks took that quote too literally, conveniently forgetting the so-called "truce" was opposed to Riccò's "hard core" ways. I always took it to mean most people toned it down with the introduction of the biological passport, unlike Riccò, Sella, Schumacher and others who didn't get the memo and were busted due to their carelessness.

Some forumers consistently misrepresent that as if JV had said the peloton got together and signed a treaty or something.

I agree. I always assumed that he meant that Operación Puerto had spooked the peleton in 2006 and resulted in a general shift in attitude that resulted in most of them stopping or at least toning it down.

 

[cineteq]

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1911365.ece

According to this, the Chicken did the 2007 Tour on 5 blood bags, 100,000 units of epo, cortisone and growth hormone.

Having just re-watched that tour, I can believe it.

If he was on that hardcore program, then what the rider who was side by side using, in col de Peyresourde?

 

[roundabout]

When did the case against Rabo heat up?

To be honest, it seemed to snowball after the Armstrong decision was made public.

Or do you mean chicken's own case?

 

[MrRoboto]

Only to people who hadn't been paying attention in the previous years. In 2005 he was probably just as good as in 2007, if he hadn't crashed thrice (which had nothing to do with fysical capabilities) in the last timetrial he would have easily been 4th in that Tour, the top-3 of the 2005 Tour weren't participating in the 2007 Tour.

In 2005 he faded a bit towards the end of the tour, then he had that catastrophic TT. He obviously was pretty bad at time trialing, but people tend to forget that he basically time trialed himself to victory in one stage in 2005.

The difference in 2007 was probably that he had prepared himself much better....Like taking a few rides with his TT bike.

 

[Ferminal]

To be honest, it seemed to snowball after the Armstrong decision was made public.

Or do you mean chicken's own case?

Chicken's, anything which may have made it more likely to have stopped in 2010.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If he was on that hardcore program, then what the rider who was side by side using, in col de Peyresourde?

Hard work, self-belief, and superior talent.

 

[spalco]

EPO, lots of it. Duck and dodge.

A bag is a bag.

They start training for the Tour in November of the year before.

That's 8 months to get the blood ready. Plenty of time.

Maybe. But that's still way up there among the most extreme doping programs I've ever heard about. That's almost suicidal lunacy.

 

[neineinei]

Thanks. I'd not seen that before and was relying on interpretations from various other sources that Levi said he stopped doping in 2006.

His 2007 and 2008 performances seem more consistent with him having carried on longer than that!

I did the same. But somewhere I read that he lost his results in the 2007 TdF, and had to look it up. He claims he only doped for TdF in 2007 though, and doesn't admit any doping after that. So he won Tour of California clean in 2007, 2008 and 2009!

 

[roundabout]

Chicken's, anything which may have made it more likely to have stopped in 2010.

He got the initial compensation in 2008 and the current case is still ongoing, well, as far as I know.

Who knows, maybe it is a way to put a boot into the Rabo management one more time, but I am not sure that admitting to being a serial doper would help his case.

Edit: I still think that it's all about the current team survival or maybe he stopped doping being 37 and riding ssrs.