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Looking at those values would they flag up any suspicions today?
If not then the BP clearly isn't that great.
If not then the BP clearly isn't that great.
Wow.
Vaughters' claim of a clean(er) peloton is based largely (though indeed not exclusively) on the bloodpassport.
I'd call that naive for someone who says he dedicates his life to anti-doping.
He has been awfully silent for a while, now that i think of it.
Vaughters' claim of a clean(er) peloton is based largely (though indeed not exclusively) on the bloodpassport.
I'd call that naive for someone who says he dedicates his life to anti-doping.
He has been awfully silent for a while, now that i think of it.
SundayRider said:
Impossible to say definitively without the retic%, but the 2007 values look like they would raise a flag.
I found a new interesting interview by Jacob Staehelin with Michael Rasmussen here:
http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/bag-om-sandheden-tvunget-til-at-tilstaa
Here's a (bad) translation into english:
Michael Rasmussen saved his future by telling everything to former FBI agents and anti-doping authorities. In this exclusive interview, chicken on its reasons and 12 years as a doped rider
Michael Rasmussen could feel the net tightening around him.
The many stories of riders from Rabobank, who told the truth about organized doping, was now a burning platform under him.
- I could see what direction it went. Every time there is a new rider, who speaks out, I'm the first one the journalists are calling. So now the time has come, says Michael Rasmussen.
He sits in the conservatory with Claus and Christina Hembo in their house in Herning and tries to put some words on a decision that will forever change his life. Some hours before this interview Michael Rasmussen admitted to years of heavy doping at a packed press conference.
MR have sat down for four days of intense questioning in the Netherlands and Denmark. Here Michael Rasmussen was questioned by representatives of the Dutch, Danish and American anti-doping authorities. WADA also took part in it. With a former FBI agent to head the interrogations, where Michael Rasmussen had sports professor Verner Møller as assessor.
Rider 14
For it was a matter of time, sensed Michael Rasmussen before would go hole on the big balloon and then there would not be able to continue as sports director at Christina Watches Onfone team. So it would be a lifelong quarantine, waiting for him. It escapes him now with cooperation.
- I have known what was in USADA report for a long time. And I well knew who was behind the black line, which encompassed 'rider 14', says Michael Rasmussen, referring to the report that felled Lance Armstrong. The are a number of names crossed out and anonymous, but 'rider 14' is in many places identified as Michael Rasmussen - which is also true.
- I know also that the black lines are removed at a time. It was one of many reasons why I told it all, says Michael Rasmussen.
So the urge to tell everything, admit everything and mention a lot of names was also helped along by the threat was that if he confessed everything, he was even banned from the sport. Therefore, he entered the agreement with doping authorities.
- I will tell everything I know says Michael Rasmussen on the agreement.
But what exactly has been said, is still uncertain. It is part of the package that Michael Rasmussen silent about what he has explained about doping in cycling, so any new cases will not be spoiled in advance.
Would be to promote
Do you hope or fear, that you drag other riders down with it?
- I hope I can help - I am one of those who speak - and there are others who do the same and give their contribution. Everyone can choose when they want to talk.
There may be some great cost to others?
- It is unfortunately costs, the sport can not be separated if we are on the right track. The sport is that it has not prepared collectively, says Michael Rasmussen, who may have been aware of what the risks of continuing the lie would be, but also looking forward to being able to tell the truth again.
- One of the things that really motivated me to come forward, was that I was tired of lying. When taking with you before I admitted to doping, we both knew that we skated around on the surface. And I basically do not like to lie, says Michael Rasmussen.
- Ambition wise, I have turned down tremendously for my own career. If I win a Post Cup does not mean a damn thing to you when you have won four stages in the Tour de France. It does not matter to my legacy as a professional cyclist, he says.
And it was just the realization - that it was the Post Cup and not the Tour de France race program consisted of - that made him run clean.
- I chose to stop doping myself when it dawned on me that there would be no more grand tours for me, says Michael Rasmussen of the end of 12 years of drug abuse. The abuse began when he after a brilliant season as a mountain biker in 1997 suddenly felt that he had a hard time keeping up.
The recognition comes without emotion. It is simply a statement:
- I could easily have run clean. But I could certainly not run on the victories I wanted, he says and remembers how it all began.
Michael Rasmussen admits his wife Clarissa knew all about his drug abuse, but she was never approached by the media or held accountable for it.
A part of everyday life
- 2 reasons for me to come out to note.
1. Festina scandal in 1998 was almost an advertising campaign for doping, as I saw it. Everyone suddenly knew what EPO was. Also a lot of cyclists. Doping spread from the professional field, to everybody/all levels of races. I began doping myself in the summer of 1998. It was a huge confirmation of my suspicions about what happened in the field.
The second reason was the Internet. Suddenly there was information available. Then it was two clicks of the mouse, how to do this and that, says Michael Rasmussen, who wasn't discomforted by doping himself.
- For me doping was a part of my everyday life. It was crazy, but I felt it was something I had to do. I always knew that I did something wrong, but the feeling was not present. I knew it was wrong when I pulled EPO from the refrigerator and injected it into my arm. I didn't become a cyclist to do that. It's not something you're pleased to do when you stick yourself with needles, says Michael Rasmussen and speaks of how easy it was to cheat the doping checks.
- When I put my blood values over 2005 and 2006, they showed that my hematocrit value was between 38 and 40 (Far from the criminal 50, which could result in quarantine, ed.) I could claim that I ran clean. The values would not get anyone to lift an eyebrow. But I did not run clean. So there is no reason to say anything else. I could also say that I won the World Cup in mountainbike clean. I only had to do a simple urine test that could detect nothing. But I did not race clean. Now it is pure *** to honk in. The time for it. The time is different now than when Operacion Puerto affair came out. Back then the sport closed in on itself, says Michael Rasmussen.
Wish for the future
When we see a Tour field today, is it clean?
- No. I think it would be naive to think so. Just think of Frank Schleck testing positive in the last Tour. It is proof that it is not clean, says Michael Rasmussen.
His vision for the confession of his many years of doping and his cooperation with anti-doping authorities in the Netherlands, the USA and Denmark are clear:
- I hope the rider with the greatest natural gifts and the greatest willingness to work winning races. The sport has tried to solve the problem for many years, but I'm not sure if you can call UCI approaches for solutions. It is managed very poorly. It has budged when it was the french gendarmerie or the FBI, who responded, said Michael Rasmussen, who has a clear wish for his future as a sports director.
- I do not want to manage a team like the teams I have driven on. It is terrible stress. I would not be able to help, says Michael Rasmussen.
http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/bag-om-sandheden-tvunget-til-at-tilstaa
Here's a (bad) translation into english:
Michael Rasmussen saved his future by telling everything to former FBI agents and anti-doping authorities. In this exclusive interview, chicken on its reasons and 12 years as a doped rider
Michael Rasmussen could feel the net tightening around him.
The many stories of riders from Rabobank, who told the truth about organized doping, was now a burning platform under him.
- I could see what direction it went. Every time there is a new rider, who speaks out, I'm the first one the journalists are calling. So now the time has come, says Michael Rasmussen.
He sits in the conservatory with Claus and Christina Hembo in their house in Herning and tries to put some words on a decision that will forever change his life. Some hours before this interview Michael Rasmussen admitted to years of heavy doping at a packed press conference.
MR have sat down for four days of intense questioning in the Netherlands and Denmark. Here Michael Rasmussen was questioned by representatives of the Dutch, Danish and American anti-doping authorities. WADA also took part in it. With a former FBI agent to head the interrogations, where Michael Rasmussen had sports professor Verner Møller as assessor.
Rider 14
For it was a matter of time, sensed Michael Rasmussen before would go hole on the big balloon and then there would not be able to continue as sports director at Christina Watches Onfone team. So it would be a lifelong quarantine, waiting for him. It escapes him now with cooperation.
- I have known what was in USADA report for a long time. And I well knew who was behind the black line, which encompassed 'rider 14', says Michael Rasmussen, referring to the report that felled Lance Armstrong. The are a number of names crossed out and anonymous, but 'rider 14' is in many places identified as Michael Rasmussen - which is also true.
- I know also that the black lines are removed at a time. It was one of many reasons why I told it all, says Michael Rasmussen.
So the urge to tell everything, admit everything and mention a lot of names was also helped along by the threat was that if he confessed everything, he was even banned from the sport. Therefore, he entered the agreement with doping authorities.
- I will tell everything I know says Michael Rasmussen on the agreement.
But what exactly has been said, is still uncertain. It is part of the package that Michael Rasmussen silent about what he has explained about doping in cycling, so any new cases will not be spoiled in advance.
Would be to promote
Do you hope or fear, that you drag other riders down with it?
- I hope I can help - I am one of those who speak - and there are others who do the same and give their contribution. Everyone can choose when they want to talk.
There may be some great cost to others?
- It is unfortunately costs, the sport can not be separated if we are on the right track. The sport is that it has not prepared collectively, says Michael Rasmussen, who may have been aware of what the risks of continuing the lie would be, but also looking forward to being able to tell the truth again.
- One of the things that really motivated me to come forward, was that I was tired of lying. When taking with you before I admitted to doping, we both knew that we skated around on the surface. And I basically do not like to lie, says Michael Rasmussen.
- Ambition wise, I have turned down tremendously for my own career. If I win a Post Cup does not mean a damn thing to you when you have won four stages in the Tour de France. It does not matter to my legacy as a professional cyclist, he says.
And it was just the realization - that it was the Post Cup and not the Tour de France race program consisted of - that made him run clean.
- I chose to stop doping myself when it dawned on me that there would be no more grand tours for me, says Michael Rasmussen of the end of 12 years of drug abuse. The abuse began when he after a brilliant season as a mountain biker in 1997 suddenly felt that he had a hard time keeping up.
The recognition comes without emotion. It is simply a statement:
- I could easily have run clean. But I could certainly not run on the victories I wanted, he says and remembers how it all began.
Michael Rasmussen admits his wife Clarissa knew all about his drug abuse, but she was never approached by the media or held accountable for it.
A part of everyday life
- 2 reasons for me to come out to note.
1. Festina scandal in 1998 was almost an advertising campaign for doping, as I saw it. Everyone suddenly knew what EPO was. Also a lot of cyclists. Doping spread from the professional field, to everybody/all levels of races. I began doping myself in the summer of 1998. It was a huge confirmation of my suspicions about what happened in the field.
The second reason was the Internet. Suddenly there was information available. Then it was two clicks of the mouse, how to do this and that, says Michael Rasmussen, who wasn't discomforted by doping himself.
- For me doping was a part of my everyday life. It was crazy, but I felt it was something I had to do. I always knew that I did something wrong, but the feeling was not present. I knew it was wrong when I pulled EPO from the refrigerator and injected it into my arm. I didn't become a cyclist to do that. It's not something you're pleased to do when you stick yourself with needles, says Michael Rasmussen and speaks of how easy it was to cheat the doping checks.
- When I put my blood values over 2005 and 2006, they showed that my hematocrit value was between 38 and 40 (Far from the criminal 50, which could result in quarantine, ed.) I could claim that I ran clean. The values would not get anyone to lift an eyebrow. But I did not run clean. So there is no reason to say anything else. I could also say that I won the World Cup in mountainbike clean. I only had to do a simple urine test that could detect nothing. But I did not race clean. Now it is pure *** to honk in. The time for it. The time is different now than when Operacion Puerto affair came out. Back then the sport closed in on itself, says Michael Rasmussen.
Wish for the future
When we see a Tour field today, is it clean?
- No. I think it would be naive to think so. Just think of Frank Schleck testing positive in the last Tour. It is proof that it is not clean, says Michael Rasmussen.
His vision for the confession of his many years of doping and his cooperation with anti-doping authorities in the Netherlands, the USA and Denmark are clear:
- I hope the rider with the greatest natural gifts and the greatest willingness to work winning races. The sport has tried to solve the problem for many years, but I'm not sure if you can call UCI approaches for solutions. It is managed very poorly. It has budged when it was the french gendarmerie or the FBI, who responded, said Michael Rasmussen, who has a clear wish for his future as a sports director.
- I do not want to manage a team like the teams I have driven on. It is terrible stress. I would not be able to help, says Michael Rasmussen.
Interesting that Tour '07, both his HcT and haemoglobin increase, and to a far greater degree than at any of the other GTs he rode. Most show a slight decline in both, apart from the '06 Giro where his haemoglobin is way up for the second test.
Is Peschiera just where he lived and trained, meaning OOC tests?
Is Peschiera just where he lived and trained, meaning OOC tests?
Thanks for the translated post Sofa, and the others.
I too wonder if we're going to get a big confession from Leipheimer at some point. I say this because of the kind of person he is. Something tells me if he hasn't fully cooperated already and we'll see a report on it, he will very soon.
I too wonder if we're going to get a big confession from Leipheimer at some point. I say this because of the kind of person he is. Something tells me if he hasn't fully cooperated already and we'll see a report on it, he will very soon.
Alpe d'Huez said:
What makes you think this about Leipheimer? I don't know much about his as a person, just as a rider.
The long time combined effect of taking these drugs is pretty severe. It causes all sorts of internal problems, sometimes resulting in riders spilling their guts.
But seriously, Lance should take note of how to properly come clean to the authorities and the general public. I'm glad this day came.
But seriously, Lance should take note of how to properly come clean to the authorities and the general public. I'm glad this day came.
Sofa Rider said:
Thank your Micheal for not sticking your head in the sand like many of the current peloton.
Clausfarre said:
I agree with you. Michael Rasmussen is anything but a respectful man, but coming out like he has done is the right thing to do, whatever his reasons for doing so was.
Let's hope other people involved in doping will follow his example.
Based on what The Chicken got suspended 2 years? If he was allowed to race the Tour with his ongoing whereabouts case, I still see no reason why the monegasques banned him. Seems to be a political issue to me.
I like his comments in the recent CN article. Obviously it's not only the bad cobra doing blood transfusion by himself. Rasmussen just seemed to be more carefully and more professional in what he did. His comments about the blood passport make me believe that all the clean-era talk of guys like Vaughters is pure hypocrite.
Does anybody have a video of Rasmussen Vuelta win in 2003? It's one of my first major cycling memories. But I can't find it anywhere on Youtube.
Still like him as a cyclist and as a person now even more. His style was just awesome and he was an unique character in the peloton. He has his story, but so did Pantani and many more legendary characters.
I like his comments in the recent CN article. Obviously it's not only the bad cobra doing blood transfusion by himself. Rasmussen just seemed to be more carefully and more professional in what he did. His comments about the blood passport make me believe that all the clean-era talk of guys like Vaughters is pure hypocrite.
Does anybody have a video of Rasmussen Vuelta win in 2003? It's one of my first major cycling memories. But I can't find it anywhere on Youtube.
Still like him as a cyclist and as a person now even more. His style was just awesome and he was an unique character in the peloton. He has his story, but so did Pantani and many more legendary characters.
staubsauger said:
The Clean-Era has yet to begin but we are in the middle of a Dark-Era. If you read up on history you can see the parallels quite well.
staubsauger said:
This was JV's response when he was confronted with Rasmussen's confession and how it casts dark light on the functionality of the BP
he seems to have a lot invested in the appearance of a working BP.JV1973 said:
like the UCI.
sniper said:
Is the appearance of a working BP good for JV? Sure it is...
Is him pointing out a couple of easily verifiable truths proof of an agenda? Far from it...
Just to add to the above - and by that heighten the embarrassment that is Rasmussen even further. At some point - don't remember if it was shortly after his ejection or later around the same time as LA released his blood numbers - Rasmussen publicised his blood profile to show the world how normal it was and noting how the hct never went beynd normal. Now I don't remember if it was Morkeberg (you know, the non-expert who finished last in his class) or if it was Damsgaard (another guy who needs no introduction) instantly made the comment that while the hct was never high it fluctuated and in a way that was far from normal. Own goal Rasmussen!
There's no doubt - whatsoever - that he would have drowned if he had ever been under the passport. He's so full of it, always has been and even if he's spilled some beans lately there's plenty more where they came from. There's no credibility with him still. None... at... all...
sniper said:
You may be right.
In fairness, though, the similarity between JV and the UCI may end there.
Not defending him. Rather, pointing out that JV needs something to rely on. Whereas the UCI's reliance on the BP may be for completely different reasons, diametrically opposed.
Dave.
I am getting the feeling that Rasmussen does not fully understand the blood profiles, because he thought his was OK, but JV defineately said suspect when he saw it.
Good that he has confessed, but lets not take him as a BP expert.
Good that he has confessed, but lets not take him as a BP expert.
del1962 said:
Well, it's one thing for someone with experience to identify a doper, it's entirely another to test positive.
Dave's right, JV is working the BP from a different angle than the UCI.
^all true of course^
the point was: when it comes to the BP, jv starts throwing out 'facts' that aren't facts (e.g. wrt Rasmussen not being in the passport pool after 2007, see above) and tells others to study the topic. With all respect (and fully acknowledging my own ignorance on the topic), one really needn't study anything to understand the BP at present is hopelessly flawed, yet there's JV defending it with flawed arguments (as aforementioned Rasmussen example shows), where it would be better for him to stay silent on it or say he doesn't know. He's defending a fig leaf.
the point was: when it comes to the BP, jv starts throwing out 'facts' that aren't facts (e.g. wrt Rasmussen not being in the passport pool after 2007, see above) and tells others to study the topic. With all respect (and fully acknowledging my own ignorance on the topic), one really needn't study anything to understand the BP at present is hopelessly flawed, yet there's JV defending it with flawed arguments (as aforementioned Rasmussen example shows), where it would be better for him to stay silent on it or say he doesn't know. He's defending a fig leaf.
hrotha said:
Hct increased by 3.6 points during the 2007 TdF. Even Damsgaard said it was impossible without doping. Go figure.
Of course, but I meant his pre-2007 Tour values don't look all that remarkable or obvious to me (practically illiterate when it comes to reading blood profiles, though).Tyler'sTwin said:
SlantParallelogram said:
I agree with this post whoeheartedly. Look at the legions of Pantani fans. I will also go a step further and say that a lot of fans of those who haven't been caught are hanging their hat on a very flimsy hook.
Some have been caught, some haven't been caught, and some had talent and integrity and left the sport and we never got the chance to see what they could do. But to think some of your favorites who haven't been caught are totally clean... I set that notion aside a while ago and it just makes it easier to watch.
alberto.legstrong said:
I don't agree one bit.
The clean riders who got stuck with half a career and no money - they got the raw deal.
The fans - who still 15 years after Festina and more than 20 years after EPO entered the scene have no reason to trust anything about the sport - they got the raw deal.
Cheats who got caught didn't get a raw deal simply because someone else didn't get caught. Cycling as a sport didn't get the raw deal just because no other sport has been dragged through the mud (yet). Dopers and cycling got their just deserts - problem is that there are still plenty of people who haven't been served yet... And the clean athletes and the fans got a raw deal because it hasn't happened yet...
That Rasmussen has admitted his doping while clearly still lying through his teeth about it shows how little of a raw deal he got. Ex-colleagues have gone on record to describe he was no doubt doping prior to 98. What does he do? He claims they're lying. Sorry mate, game's up. If anyone has less credibility than LA it'd be MR... Hands down...
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