The Chicken will confess today

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Mar 29, 2011
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Where are the details? Will they come into light for usual fans?! We need Danish reasoned decision. :)
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Rasmussen's public confession has already had an effect as a member of the Danish parliament, with support from both sides of the political spectrum, has announced that the Danish ADA will get increased funding, enabling them to hire lawyers, investigators and detectives, to the tune of 3.5 million Euros. The representative, Brian Mikkelsen, stressed that doping is organized crime, and has connections to drug smuggling and known criminal organizations.
Rasmussen's information enables the ADA to make some headway in the fight against doping.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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airstream said:
Where are the details? Will they come into light for usual fans?! We need Danish reasoned decision. :)
I can understand your wish for instant gratification, but all in good time.
There's bound to be more than a few cyclists, directors and doctors feeling pretty nervous these days, and they should be given some days to realize that they should make that call to their ADA, before it comes knocking on their door.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Frosty said:
Not good enough im afraid. Disgusting whats been going on, im never going to grow dutch tulips in my garden again:mad:
I see what you did there, but Dekker_T has a point: investigate a random other team from that era (say, Lotto or Quick-Step) and you'll probably find the same goings-on. But the Dutch and their navel-gazing would make it seem otherwise.

Thomas Dekker says "doping was a way of life for the best cyclists", the media turn this into "doping was a way of life at Rabobank". And the international media happily go along.
 
Sep 29, 2012
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hektoren said:
Rasmussen's public confession has already had an effect as a member of the Danish parliament, with support from both sides of the political spectrum, has announced that the Danish ADA will get increased funding, enabling them to hire lawyers, investigators and detectives, to the tune of 3.5 million Euros. The representative, Brian Mikkelsen, stressed that doping is organized crime, and has connections to drug smuggling and known criminal organizations.
Rasmussen's information enables the ADA to make some headway in the fight against doping.
This, IMO, is the right way to do it. Increase funding to increase the ability to effect change.

Compare to the Aussies, where the Aussie media reported today that the Aussie government is threatening to cut funding to Cycling Australia if they do not implement recommendations. No mention was made of funding increases to implement the recommendations, or funding increases to ASADA to increase doping controls or testing abilities.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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theyoungest said:
I see what you did there, but Dekker_T has a point: investigate a random other team from that era (say, Lotto or Quick-Step) and you'll probably find the same goings-on. But the Dutch and their navel-gazing would make it seem otherwise.

Thomas Dekker says "doping was a way of life for the best cyclists", the media turn this into "doping was a way of life at Rabobank". And the international media happily go along.
Yeah, i was fully agreeing with his point by jokingly saying that i was boycotting Dutch things. With the whole Operation Puerto and US Postal stuff going on it should be obvious that it wasnt a case of Rabobank being the only team with a big doping plan. Doped more than some other teams, most probably yes, but doping more than the top, say, 8-10 teams? We'll probably never know the full extent of how much everyone did but its difficult to say that they did dope more IMO
 
theyoungest said:
I see what you did there, but Dekker_T has a point: investigate a random other team from that era (say, Lotto or Quick-Step) and you'll probably find the same goings-on. But the Dutch and their navel-gazing would make it seem otherwise.

Thomas Dekker says "doping was a way of life for the best cyclists", the media turn this into "doping was a way of life at Rabobank". And the international media happily go along.
But coming from Dekker_T it just sounds as "no matter what comes out, Rabobank can't have been that bad because I would be uncomfortable with that."
 
May 19, 2010
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Michael Rasmussen asked on Monday author Verner Møller behind the book 'Løgn over løgn' about Rasmussen's controversial Tour de France exit in 2007, to sit in on interrogations with anti-doping authorities.

Verner Møller, who also is a widely used doping debater, hope, Rasmussen's showdown with the 'law of silence' proves beneficial to the fight against doping. But he has his doubts.

"What he knows about, is back in the past. Michael Rasmussen has not been close to topcykling since 2007, "said Verner Møller, who doubts that riders from Rasmussen's heyday will fear the consequences of Rasmussen's honesty.

"There is, after all, also a judicial system, and there must be some form of proof, beyond what anyone had to say."
http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE1884805/rasmussens-fortrolige-indroemmelse-rykker-ikke-meget/
 
Jun 25, 2009
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I had been wondering how much effect it would have, as in some cases it could be one person's word against anothers, or against numerous others. Thinking back to Bernhard Kohl, he revealed a lot yet the whole Humanplasma thing hasnt been resolved. I think Matschiner got punished but the alleged other users of Humanplasma are still free as far as i can tell? I think the investigation is still ongoing though?

One difference here though might be the number of people coming forward to talk about their time at Rabobank, eg Thomas Dekker. Not all of what Rasmussen says will be him speaking alone. If the rumours that Rasmussen was involved in Humanplasma are true then maybe that will reinvigorate that case.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Frosty said:
I had been wondering how much effect it would have, as in some cases it could be one person's word against anothers, or against numerous others. Thinking back to Bernhard Kohl, he revealed a lot yet the whole Humanplasma thing hasnt been resolved. I think Matschiner got punished but the alleged other users of Humanplasma are still free as far as i can tell? I think the investigation is still ongoing though?

One difference here though might be the number of people coming forward to talk about their time at Rabobank, eg Thomas Dekker. Not all of what Rasmussen says will be him speaking alone. If the rumours that Rasmussen was involved in Humanplasma are true then maybe that will reinvigorate that case.
Indeed. But it might once again become a long streched process, where our patience is tested again, and with no satisfactory outcome.

the whole reason why Bruyneel and Riis have been able to stay in the game for so long is because neither the Belgian nor the Danish federation have felt the responsibility to act upon the available oral testimony.

Also, Dear Wiggo already recalled the Puerto/Padua investigations which c/should have been slamdunks, if the federations had shown any interest.

But of course the winds have changed now ---Lance's legacy--- and there is plenty of reason to hope (not expect, but hope) the federations will act upon the information this time.

As far as Riis is concerned, Rasmussen's testimony will be added to Hamilton's and Jaksche's. So we'll have three riders testimonies against him.
 
sniper said:
Indeed. But it might once again become a long streched process, where our patience is tested again, and with no satisfactory outcome.

the whole reason why Bruyneel and Riis have been able to stay in the game for so long is because neither the Belgian nor the Danish federation have felt the responsibility to act upon the available oral testimony.

Also, Dear Wiggo already recalled the Puerto/Padua investigations which c/should have been slamdunks, if the federations had shown any interest.

But of course the winds have changed now ---Lance's legacy--- and there is plenty of reason to hope the federations will act upon the information this time. (Note the use of the word "hope", as opposed to "expect")

As far as Riis is concerned, Rasmussen's testimony will be added to Hamilton's and Jaksche's. So we'll have three riders testimonies against him.
That will depend on what connections Rasmussen had with Riis wrt doping though.
 
May 12, 2010
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Frosty said:
I had been wondering how much effect it would have, as in some cases it could be one person's word against anothers, or against numerous others. Thinking back to Bernhard Kohl, he revealed a lot yet the whole Humanplasma thing hasnt been resolved. I think Matschiner got punished but the alleged other users of Humanplasma are still free as far as i can tell? I think the investigation is still ongoing though?

One difference here though might be the number of people coming forward to talk about their time at Rabobank, eg Thomas Dekker. Not all of what Rasmussen says will be him speaking alone. If the rumours that Rasmussen was involved in Humanplasma are true then maybe that will reinvigorate that case.
Isn't there the same problem as in the Puerto case, that doping use by a rider wasn't punishable in Austria at the time?

I don't expect that much from the Humanplasma angle. Most of the rumored riders who visited the place already retired. Who are left? Dekker, but he already confessed to having visited the place, Menchov maybe? But that guy is already a shell of his former self, it wouldn't have much of an inpact at this time.

That's a big shame of all these confessions, they are helpfull, but they would be a hunderd times more helpfull if they were delivered in 2007, not almost 6 years later.
 
May 19, 2010
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Rasmussen was talking with ADA's in Amsterdam last week. Møller was at the meetings this week, in Copenhagen, possibly primary with Anti-Doping Denmark. That he has been talking to USADA is interesting. Is it for general knowledge about doping? Is there something they can use in the case against Bruyneel? Are they investigating others? Anti-Doping Denmark did praise USADA's Armstrong investigation yesterday at their press conference, saying it was a game changer. The investigation into Rabobank can give lots of eye witness statements and there might be enough to go after doctors and leaders. But does any other ADA have the USADA muscle? It is very interesting that so many of them are involved here.
 
Sep 22, 2012
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I suspect a lot of teams were very much like USPS minus Armstrong. Some might have doped a little more than others but it was ingrained in the team organisation and lots of riders doped in lots of teams. They just did not have such a big name with the big cancer comeback that USPS did. How much the riders on different teams were 'encouraged' to dope probably varied. How much was the team looking the other way while doping happened as opposed to being directly involved also varied.
However with Rabobank it seems to have been pretty bad. The sooner we can get a rider like Menchov out of the record books the better. Hopefully Rasmussen has been able to provide put him in big trouble.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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neineinei said:
That he has been talking to USADA is interesting. Is it for general knowledge about doping? Is there something they can use in the case against Bruyneel? Are they investigating others? Anti-Doping Denmark did praise USADA's Armstrong investigation yesterday at their press conference, saying it was a game changer. The investigation into Rabobank can give lots of eye witness statements and there might be enough to go after doctors and leaders. But does any other ADA have the USADA muscle? It is very interesting that so many of them are involved here.
The interrogation was led by two former FBI agents. Michael Rasmussen sat with his lawyer and was assisted by professor in sports medicine Verner Møller. One of the agents was characterized as a "heavyweight" who got results in the Armstrong investigation through interrogation. In a case that will ultimately rely on sworn statements rather than test results, you'll need persons well versed in interrogation techniques.

There are still bound to be blanks to be filled in in the USADA's and WADA's extensive knowledge, and international cooperation is necessary to counter international crime.
 
May 19, 2010
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Also the Dutch anti-doping agency Dopingautoriteit, were present during the interrogations of Michael Rasmussen, and director Herman Ram is very pleased with the outcome of the meetings.

"He seemed open and honest and gave us relevant and interesting information. He was very cooperative, and I'm sure he did his best to tell how things are going, "said Herman Ram.

He will not say that Rasmussen has come up with vital new information.

"Our work is a bit like putting a jigsaw puzzle, where many pieces have to fit together. We have long known what the picture depicts, but there is still a lot of details we don't know. "

"The interviews with Rasmussen did not give us a whole new image, but it gave us some new pieces to work with," said Herman Ram.

With Michael Rasmussen's testimony has Dopingautoriteit got more evidence that could help anti-doping authorities to get other riders found guilty of doping.

"But I still do not know what we can use it. We know only in the coming weeks and months, "said Herman Ram.

He says, moreover, that six other former Rabobank riders have done as Michael Rasmussen and chosen to work with anti-doping authorities to get at the truth and possibly have reduced their own punishment.
http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE1885596/dopingjaegere-rasmussen-gav-os-nogle-nye-brikker-at-arbejde-med/
 
Sep 24, 2012
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Dear Wiggo said:
This, IMO, is the right way to do it. Increase funding to increase the ability to effect change.

Compare to the Aussies, where the Aussie media reported today that the Aussie government is threatening to cut funding to Cycling Australia if they do not implement recommendations. No mention was made of funding increases to implement the recommendations, or funding increases to ASADA to increase doping controls or testing abilities.
No surprise that the Scandinavian's approach is more enlightened than the Australian one. Just compare high school and higher education completion rates and you start to get the answer.

I digress.

Rasmussen's confession has to be the most interseting one to date after Tyler Hamilton's. Not only for its completeness, but also because of the timeframe, up to 2010. That puts paid to any rubbish talk from the UCI or other cyclists about all this being in the distant past. Cadel Evans even said recently, that all this was a "very, very long time ago". Really? Jeez mate, we wanna believe, so much, but you aint givin us a reason yet. Just the same old crock-a-...
 
Sep 22, 2012
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neineinei said:
Also the Dutch anti-doping agency Dopingautoriteit, were present during the interrogations of Michael Rasmussen, and director Herman Ram is very pleased with the outcome of the meetings.

"He seemed open and honest and gave us relevant and interesting information. He was very cooperative, and I'm sure he did his best to tell how things are going, "said Herman Ram.

He will not say that Rasmussen has come up with vital new information.

"Our work is a bit like putting a jigsaw puzzle, where many pieces have to fit together. We have long known what the picture depicts, but there is still a lot of details we don't know. "

"The interviews with Rasmussen did not give us a whole new image, but it gave us some new pieces to work with," said Herman Ram.

With Michael Rasmussen's testimony has Dopingautoriteit got more evidence that could help anti-doping authorities to get other riders found guilty of doping.

"But I still do not know what we can use it. We know only in the coming weeks and months, "said Herman Ram.

He says, moreover, that six other former Rabobank riders have done as Michael Rasmussen and chosen to work with anti-doping authorities to get at the truth and possibly have reduced their own punishment.
http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/ECE1885596/dopingjaegere-rasmussen-gav-os-nogle-nye-brikker-at-arbejde-med/
Who are the six other former Rabobank riders?
 
May 12, 2010
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Mad Elephant Man said:
Who are the six other former Rabobank riders?
Thomas Dekker, Niermann, De Jongh, Nelissen and Lotz have also confessed in the last couple of weeks. Maybe Leipheimer as well?
 
Sep 22, 2012
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Lanark said:
Thomas Dekker, Niermann, De Jongh, Nelissen and Lotz have also confessed in the last couple of weeks. Maybe Leipheimer as well?
Thank you




The 10 character thing is totally stupid and should be got rid of.
 
May 12, 2010
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hrotha said:
Chicken's blood values:
https://twitter.com/mrconde/status/297318388223594497/photo/1

Even with suspicious spikes in hematocrit and hemoglobin as the 2007 TdF went on, those look as generally unremarkable values. Very low hematocrit, too.
Exactly my range of values. Amazing a) how trained he was and b) how effective his scheme was. I can imagine eyeballs were popping out at ADD.

Great job on that confession, this will give authorities a boost.
 

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