airstream
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Where are the details? Will they come into light for usual fans?! We need Danish reasoned decision.
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airstream said:Where are the details? Will they come into light for usual fans?! We need Danish reasoned decision.
I see what you did there, but Dekker_T has a point: investigate a random other team from that era (say, Lotto or Quick-Step) and you'll probably find the same goings-on. But the Dutch and their navel-gazing would make it seem otherwise.Frosty said:Not good enough im afraid. Disgusting whats been going on, im never going to grow dutch tulips in my garden again
hektoren said:Rasmussen's public confession has already had an effect as a member of the Danish parliament, with support from both sides of the political spectrum, has announced that the Danish ADA will get increased funding, enabling them to hire lawyers, investigators and detectives, to the tune of 3.5 million Euros. The representative, Brian Mikkelsen, stressed that doping is organized crime, and has connections to drug smuggling and known criminal organizations.
Rasmussen's information enables the ADA to make some headway in the fight against doping.
theyoungest said:I see what you did there, but Dekker_T has a point: investigate a random other team from that era (say, Lotto or Quick-Step) and you'll probably find the same goings-on. But the Dutch and their navel-gazing would make it seem otherwise.
Thomas Dekker says "doping was a way of life for the best cyclists", the media turn this into "doping was a way of life at Rabobank". And the international media happily go along.
But coming from Dekker_T it just sounds as "no matter what comes out, Rabobank can't have been that bad because I would be uncomfortable with that."theyoungest said:I see what you did there, but Dekker_T has a point: investigate a random other team from that era (say, Lotto or Quick-Step) and you'll probably find the same goings-on. But the Dutch and their navel-gazing would make it seem otherwise.
Thomas Dekker says "doping was a way of life for the best cyclists", the media turn this into "doping was a way of life at Rabobank". And the international media happily go along.
Michael Rasmussen asked on Monday author Verner Møller behind the book 'Løgn over løgn' about Rasmussen's controversial Tour de France exit in 2007, to sit in on interrogations with anti-doping authorities.
Verner Møller, who also is a widely used doping debater, hope, Rasmussen's showdown with the 'law of silence' proves beneficial to the fight against doping. But he has his doubts.
"What he knows about, is back in the past. Michael Rasmussen has not been close to topcykling since 2007, "said Verner Møller, who doubts that riders from Rasmussen's heyday will fear the consequences of Rasmussen's honesty.
"There is, after all, also a judicial system, and there must be some form of proof, beyond what anyone had to say."
Indeed. But it might once again become a long streched process, where our patience is tested again, and with no satisfactory outcome.Frosty said:I had been wondering how much effect it would have, as in some cases it could be one person's word against anothers, or against numerous others. Thinking back to Bernhard Kohl, he revealed a lot yet the whole Humanplasma thing hasnt been resolved. I think Matschiner got punished but the alleged other users of Humanplasma are still free as far as i can tell? I think the investigation is still ongoing though?
One difference here though might be the number of people coming forward to talk about their time at Rabobank, eg Thomas Dekker. Not all of what Rasmussen says will be him speaking alone. If the rumours that Rasmussen was involved in Humanplasma are true then maybe that will reinvigorate that case.
sniper said:Indeed. But it might once again become a long streched process, where our patience is tested again, and with no satisfactory outcome.
the whole reason why Bruyneel and Riis have been able to stay in the game for so long is because neither the Belgian nor the Danish federation have felt the responsibility to act upon the available oral testimony.
Also, Dear Wiggo already recalled the Puerto/Padua investigations which c/should have been slamdunks, if the federations had shown any interest.
But of course the winds have changed now ---Lance's legacy--- and there is plenty of reason to hope the federations will act upon the information this time. (Note the use of the word "hope", as opposed to "expect")
As far as Riis is concerned, Rasmussen's testimony will be added to Hamilton's and Jaksche's. So we'll have three riders testimonies against him.
Frosty said:I had been wondering how much effect it would have, as in some cases it could be one person's word against anothers, or against numerous others. Thinking back to Bernhard Kohl, he revealed a lot yet the whole Humanplasma thing hasnt been resolved. I think Matschiner got punished but the alleged other users of Humanplasma are still free as far as i can tell? I think the investigation is still ongoing though?
One difference here though might be the number of people coming forward to talk about their time at Rabobank, eg Thomas Dekker. Not all of what Rasmussen says will be him speaking alone. If the rumours that Rasmussen was involved in Humanplasma are true then maybe that will reinvigorate that case.
neineinei said:That he has been talking to USADA is interesting. Is it for general knowledge about doping? Is there something they can use in the case against Bruyneel? Are they investigating others? Anti-Doping Denmark did praise USADA's Armstrong investigation yesterday at their press conference, saying it was a game changer. The investigation into Rabobank can give lots of eye witness statements and there might be enough to go after doctors and leaders. But does any other ADA have the USADA muscle? It is very interesting that so many of them are involved here.
Also the Dutch anti-doping agency Dopingautoriteit, were present during the interrogations of Michael Rasmussen, and director Herman Ram is very pleased with the outcome of the meetings.
"He seemed open and honest and gave us relevant and interesting information. He was very cooperative, and I'm sure he did his best to tell how things are going, "said Herman Ram.
He will not say that Rasmussen has come up with vital new information.
"Our work is a bit like putting a jigsaw puzzle, where many pieces have to fit together. We have long known what the picture depicts, but there is still a lot of details we don't know. "
"The interviews with Rasmussen did not give us a whole new image, but it gave us some new pieces to work with," said Herman Ram.
With Michael Rasmussen's testimony has Dopingautoriteit got more evidence that could help anti-doping authorities to get other riders found guilty of doping.
"But I still do not know what we can use it. We know only in the coming weeks and months, "said Herman Ram.
He says, moreover, that six other former Rabobank riders have done as Michael Rasmussen and chosen to work with anti-doping authorities to get at the truth and possibly have reduced their own punishment.
thirteen said:if you see a link to this, i'd be grateful if you posted it.
i won't be able to understand it, but... i always quite liked him
Dear Wiggo said:This, IMO, is the right way to do it. Increase funding to increase the ability to effect change.
Compare to the Aussies, where the Aussie media reported today that the Aussie government is threatening to cut funding to Cycling Australia if they do not implement recommendations. No mention was made of funding increases to implement the recommendations, or funding increases to ASADA to increase doping controls or testing abilities.
neineinei said:http://politiken.dk/sport/cykling/E...ssen-gav-os-nogle-nye-brikker-at-arbejde-med/Also the Dutch anti-doping agency Dopingautoriteit, were present during the interrogations of Michael Rasmussen, and director Herman Ram is very pleased with the outcome of the meetings.
"He seemed open and honest and gave us relevant and interesting information. He was very cooperative, and I'm sure he did his best to tell how things are going, "said Herman Ram.
He will not say that Rasmussen has come up with vital new information.
"Our work is a bit like putting a jigsaw puzzle, where many pieces have to fit together. We have long known what the picture depicts, but there is still a lot of details we don't know. "
"The interviews with Rasmussen did not give us a whole new image, but it gave us some new pieces to work with," said Herman Ram.
With Michael Rasmussen's testimony has Dopingautoriteit got more evidence that could help anti-doping authorities to get other riders found guilty of doping.
"But I still do not know what we can use it. We know only in the coming weeks and months, "said Herman Ram.
He says, moreover, that six other former Rabobank riders have done as Michael Rasmussen and chosen to work with anti-doping authorities to get at the truth and possibly have reduced their own punishment.
Mad Elephant Man said:Who are the six other former Rabobank riders?
hrotha said:Chicken's blood values:
https://twitter.com/mrconde/status/297318388223594497/photo/1
Even with suspicious spikes in hematocrit and hemoglobin as the 2007 TdF went on, those look as generally unremarkable values. Very low hematocrit, too.
Lanark said:Thomas Dekker, Niermann, De Jongh, Nelissen and Lotz have also confessed in the last couple of weeks. Maybe Leipheimer as well?
Exactly my range of values. Amazing a) how trained he was and b) how effective his scheme was. I can imagine eyeballs were popping out at ADD.hrotha said:Chicken's blood values:
https://twitter.com/mrconde/status/297318388223594497/photo/1
Even with suspicious spikes in hematocrit and hemoglobin as the 2007 TdF went on, those look as generally unremarkable values. Very low hematocrit, too.