The Chris Squared Thread

[FoxxyBrown1111]

He should simply retire

Completely agree with the last two posts... but Horner should not retire. Give the testers a few morew chances to hit the "jackpot". Eyeryone knows Horner is a true oldschool hard core doper, so he just can´t go unpunished.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Guercilena's "explanation" is quite obvious, having present that as a DS he simply won't make Horner's case much worse that it is already, and by reading between lines, he indirectly recognizes the potential damage that keeping him in the team can cause in the short term.

The fact that Guercilena has no problem keeping Jens & allowing Frank Schelck to return, while not hiring the recent Vuelta winner, with the excuse of "promoting the youngsters" speaks aloud how problematic the situation is for Horner.

He should simply retire

If the team manager gives a statement like that, it makes life even more difficult for Horner. Probably the first time such a statement has been made by a team manager without public evidence. It comes down to 2 things. Either they uncovered additional evidence or Horner's price was too high.

 

[poupou]

Is it possible that UCI has requested/adviced not to hire Horner?
Maybe that is much less expensivenad risky situation than bringing him down with a postive case by his biopassport.

 

[spalco]

I doubt it, I think it's a simple risk/reward calculation on part of the teams that must weigh heavily in favour of the risk side, especially with his substantial wage demands.

 

[hfer07]

If the team manager gives a statement like that, it makes life even more difficult for Horner. Probably the first time such a statement has been made by a team manager without public evidence. It comes down to 2 things. Either they uncovered additional evidence or Horner's price was too high.

Well- Guercilena's statemet is in fact "politically correct" if you like-He has to protect both-the Team and Horner( since his Vuelta victory was achieved while on Radioshack & under his own watch) , while not denying there are serious conflicts & accusations that are factors to undermine any possible contract with him...
as far as "evidence": aren't The Vuelta Title & his blood values enough? then there is the "witness #15" issue on the USADA report, which isn't quite good when asking for a contract.
As far as money-Isn't the money itself an issue at all IMO- Is the "value" of the investment for the length of the contract what makes any team concerned, having a 42 y.o. GT winner carrying such amount of suspicions, & taking on a potentially serious problem along. The other aspect of it is that Trek has two "younger" GC riders already, with more years ahead of them to justify the investment, rather than making an expensive contract with someone that is defying retirement in the most suspicious way...

 

[sniper]

I havent looked close at the data but I agree. Nibali and Valverde were not at their best in the vuelta in my opinion.

provided the playing field was level, guercilenas explanation is indeed completely plausible.

 

[the sceptic]

Any evidence against Horner yet? Maybe Walsh can imbed himself next year so we can be sure he is clean.

But for now I think im going to say "not sure" and wait for more evidence.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Is it possible that UCI has requested/adviced not to hire Horner?
Maybe that is much less expensivenad risky situation than bringing him down with a postive case by his biopassport.

Yes. We've seen the UCI be activists in this way before. Mancebo destroying the U.S. race calendar in the U.S. for the last few years is just one example. The UCI won't let him back on the WT despite proven performances.

It seems like Horner is not viewed as popular like a Voigt, or a rider that brings in sponsorship money like a Schleck.

This is where watching the UCI is the equivalent of Kremlinology. You never know who they will pursue to get removed from the WT at all costs, chasing them around the world, or who they will let return...

 

[Benotti69]

Yes. We've seen the UCI be activists in this way before. Mancebo destroying the U.S. race calendar in the U.S. for the last few years is just one example. The UCI won't let him back on the WT despite proven performances.

It seems like Horner is not viewed as popular like a Voigt, or a rider that brings in sponsorship money like a Schleck.

This is where watching the UCI is the equivalent of Kremlinology. You never know who they will pursue to get removed from the WT at all costs, chasing them around the world, or who they will let return...

Is it possible that ASO put the UCI up to blacklisting Horner?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Yes. We've seen the UCI be activists in this way before. Mancebo destroying the U.S. race calendar in the U.S. for the last few years is just one example. The UCI won't let him back on the WT despite proven performances.

It seems like Horner is not viewed as popular like a Voigt, or a rider that brings in sponsorship money like a Schleck.

This is where watching the UCI is the equivalent of Kremlinology. You never know who they will pursue to get removed from the WT at all costs, chasing them around the world, or who they will let return...

Right on, brother.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Is it possible that ASO put the UCI up to blacklisting Horner?

<shrug> Really, really don't know.

IMHO, Horner miscalculated the politics of posting values.

#1 he's giving out his bio-passport information. Nobody on the sports administration side wants that to become the norm.

#2 He's "never tested positive" and he knows it. Which, could start others questioning the IOC's bio-passport-is-super-powerful PR message.

#3 HE is giving out his passport data, instead of the team doing it.

Even if he capitulated on fees, he made a political mistake that probably cost him another contract.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Any potential team is looking at that bio passport, and 'knowing' what went on.

Not to the 99.9% confidence required to open a case, but they 'know' for sure.

 

[roundabout]

Horner is well into his preparations for the new season

https://twitter.com/hornerakg/status/405913416889425920/photo/1

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Horner is the guy all those island dwellers can point to and say "look, our guy's unbelievable performance is made more believable by his unbelievable performance!" Cookson is from one of those islands that likes to point at Horner, so I wouldn't expect Horner will see a contract anywhere outside of US domestic racing...because the credibility of that island's favored boy is paramount to them...and Walsh writes a poem about it...

 

[thehog]

<shrug> Really, really don't know.

IMHO, Horner miscalculated the politics of posting values.

#1 he's giving out his bio-passport information. Nobody on the sports administration side wants that to become the norm.

#2 He's "never tested positive" and he knows it. Which, could start others questioning the IOC's bio-passport-is-super-powerful PR message.

#3 HE is giving out his passport data, instead of the team doing it.

Even if he capitulated on fees, he made a political mistake that probably cost him another contract.

Correct. To all of the above. We just can't have athletes releasing their passports. It's best kept secret and we're told that it has seen the end of doping.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Correct. To all of the above. We just can't have athletes releasing their passports. It's best kept secret and we're told that it has seen the end of doping.

Sky should totally sign him!

Not only would he a *****ing domestique for Froomes, he would actually productively add to Sir Dave's "transparency" regimen a la Team Sky.

It would be a win-win for all involved!

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Old Chris (the one who never finished T-20 in a GT before age 35) was stronger at La Vuelta 2013 than the just turned 27 Froome finishing 2nd at the TdF 2012, says Pinot.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/thibaut-pinot-horner-was-stronger-than-froome

I really wonder how the Sky bashing can go on over the winter, while the biggest dope fraud ever seems to be forgotten. I don´t get it. If the young Chris is that suspect, why o why has he a contract and the old one not? It´s obvious.... there is no comparison between the two at all. They are lightyears apart.

 

[sniper]

Old Chris (the one who never finished T-20 in a GT before age 35) was stronger at La Vuelta 2013 than the just turned 27 Froome finishing 2nd at the TdF 2012, says Pinot.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/thibaut-pinot-horner-was-stronger-than-froome

I really wonder how the Sky bashing can go on over the winter, while the biggest dope fraud ever seems to be forgotten. I don´t get it. If the young Chris is that suspect, why o why has he a contract and the old one not? It´s obvious.... there is no comparison between the two at all. They are lightyears apart.

using old mutant to deflect away from young mutant?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

No I don´t: We don´t know if young mutants exist*, but we all know old mutants do.

(* Froome wasn´t the first athlete to "explode" at mid-20s, but Horner is one of circa three ever doing this at grandpa stage. All were busted for cheating BTW.)

 

[The Hitch]

No I don´t: We don´t know if young mutants exist*, but we all know old mutants do.

(* Froome wasn´t the first athlete to "explode" at mid-20s, but Horner is one of circa three ever doing this at grandpa stage. All were busted for cheating BTW.)

If "we don't know young mutans exist" how comes your so sure bolt is a doper?

I was in the stadium with my daughter today from 10am am till 11 pm (all jamaican women and men won EVERY race, whether Qualification or Finals). What i saw was unreal !! I mean i saw Michael Johnsons 19,32 in the stadium live in Atlanta in 1996 and tought: unbelievable. But today, no, it was unreal. I am still shocked. My daughter is 9 and she asked what "product" did Bolt use. OMG, if i had those drugs in the early 90s, i could have improved my fastball from 74 to 82 mph right up to the minor leagues. Now i suffer in a "normal" job. All said and done: I said it before, Football, Track and Swimming is wayyyy worse then cycling. I am going to think to give up sports completely, it makes no sense anymore. Its abnormal and sick.

To be honest i was just going to the stadium today, coz my daughter really wanted it. I had my fun, my emotions and all, but after all, in the end, i am doubting BIG. Its not the way it used to be...

 

[Ferminal]

I agree, Horner would outclimb Wiggins.

 

[JimmyFingers]

But what about Bolt? Apparently he's relevant here.

 

[del1962]

But what about Bolt? Apparently he's relevant here.

He must have been so quick in the Vuelta that I missed him

 

[sniper]

No I don´t: We don´t know if young mutants exist*, but we all know old mutants do.

(* Froome wasn´t the first athlete to "explode" at mid-20s, but Horner is one of circa three ever doing this at grandpa stage. All were busted for cheating BTW.)

you should really talk in the singular there.

let's see.
1. horner has provided more data transparency than froome.
2. usada did extra testing on horner and found nothing.
who did extra testing on froome?
3. we know froome beat armstrong times at MTFs. We don't know whether horner did.
4. Froome's contact with a very dodgy doc (leinders) is more recent than Horner's contact with any dodgy doc.
5. most agree that Horner's transformation has been more gradual than Froome's.

basically, only age speaks against Horner, well, and the unconfirmed appearance of his name in one affidavit, but that's from 2004, and we all know everybody (including horner's garmin accusers) stopped doping in 2008-ish.

btw, we already have jv, walsh and race radio gang-harrassing horner (and without any confirmed evidence that is).
so it's only fair if the clinic pays a bit more attention to the other chris.

so no, we shouldn't use one mutant to deflect away from the other.
both get their deserved share of attention and mockery.

 

[del1962]

you should really talk in the singular there.

let's see.
1. horner has provided more data transparency than froome.
2. usada did extra testing on horner and found nothing.
who did extra testing on froome?
3. we know froome beat armstrong times at MTFs. We don't know whether horner did.
4. Froome's contact with a very dodgy doc (leinders) is more recent than Horner's contact with any dodgy doc.
5. most agree that Horner's transformation has been more gradual than Froome's.

basically, only age speaks against Horner, well, and the unconfirmed appearance of his name in one affidavit, but that's from 2004, and we all know everybody (including horner's garmin accusers) stopped doping in 2008-ish.

btw, we already have jv, walsh and race radio gang-harrassing horner (and without any confirmed evidence that is).
so it's only fair if the clinic pays a bit more attention to the other chris.

so no, we shouldn't use one mutant to deflect away from the other.
both get their deserved share of attention and mockery.

You really should do more reseach b4 putting arguments together, Pedro Celaya was at Radioshack after Leinders left Sky

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12277/UCI-has-no-plans-to-suspend-Bruyneel-or-RadioShack-Nissan-doctor-Petro-Celaya.aspx

RadioShack Nissan has confirmed to VeloNation that Celaya is also not part of the support staff for the race.

However in the UCI’s eyes, both are free to remain part of cycling at this point in time, and appear eligible to work with riders at other races.