The Climb (Froome's first autobiography)

[veganrob]

Define "riders."

Yeah, good point.

 

[The Hitch]

Is this the bit we swop funny pictures, funny guy?

Out of decency, I'll not add the ones of Simpson and Jensen expiring on the road.

Funny sh!t!!

I placed a bet on contador to win the tdf. 17-1 he was. Now ill be cheering for him.

Do I have blood on my hands?

 

[veganrob]

I placed a bet on contador to win the tdf. 17-1 he was. Now ill be cheering for him.

Do I have blood on my hands?

Maybe, only if you fall down drinking too much from celebrating AC victory.

Seriously, you got 17-1? Damn. I'd be all over that.

 

[the sceptic]

Maybe, only if you fall down drinking too much from celebrating AC victory.

Seriously, you got 17-1? Damn. I'd be all over that.

Must have been last year when Contador sucked.

Hitch did you think of all the gambling addicts out there when you made that bet? blood on your hands..

 

[veganrob]

Must have been last year when Contador sucked.

Hitch did you think of all the gambling addicts out there when you made that bet? blood on your hands..

Well you know the saying, "If we win we party, if we lose we get drunk".

 

[Carstenbf]

You know this is a discussion forum right?

You jump on the "blood on your hands part" and use that to ridicule a fellow poster, completely evading the fact that the man does have a point.

FWIW, I quite enjoyed reading the exchange between Hitch and martinvickers, as it helps frame an internal debate I've had for years about whether pro cycling is worth any more of my time. I've been a blue-eyed fanboy (Riis and MR btw), and even taken up the pen around the web in their defense. It does leave a sense of complicity.

Also, I find that where I used to cheer for a rider because I liked them, nowadays it's more a case of rooting for guys that can beat the ones I dislike. It's a weird mental state really.

Anyways, this is surely not the thread for this particular topic, bit I just felt that somebody had to stand up for martinvickers. You might not like his pov, but he does have a point worthy of discussion. More discussion, less ridicule please ..

 

[The Hitch]

Must have been last year when Contador sucked.

Hitch did you think of all the gambling addicts out there when you made that bet? blood on your hands..

The funny thing is, Martin doesn't hold the people who actually defended doping, responsible. Wiggins defended lance time and time again and even shot down a witness, but he isn't responsible.
Vickers was furious when I edited liggetts wiki page to include his ludicrous accusations of conspiracy directed against usada, the insults the lies.
He doesn't hold vaughters personally responsible for pantanis death, even though jv was actually doping at the time (not that I would either but I don't hold present day fans responsible). But a decade later, fans who watch a race on tv and mark in the privacy of their own homes for one guy over another, oh, there's your guilty party. These are the people with Piratas blood on their hands.

Unbelievable

 

[LaFlorecita]

Is this the bit we swop funny pictures, funny guy?

Out of decency, I'll not add the ones of Simpson and Jensen expiring on the road.

Funny sh!t!!

What!!!!

Get lost Vickers

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Anyways, this is surely not the thread for this particular topic, bit I just felt that somebody had to stand up for martinvickers. You might not like his pov, but he does have a point worthy of discussion. More discussion, less ridicule please ..

No, he doesn't have a point at all. He's grandstanding. As usual. Next he'll be cussing at people and trying to throw his weight around.

But he still won't have a point.

Just hyperbole. And it's blunt.

 

[the sceptic]

Surely if anyone has "blood on their hands" it must be the masses that blindly support dopers rather than asking questions, you know like the clinic does.

 

[Carstenbf]

No, he doesn't have a point at all. He's grandstanding. As usual. Next he'll be cussing at people and trying to throw his weight around.

But he still won't have a point.

Just hyperbole. And it's blunt.

Erm, ok.

May I remind you of the sentence that started this whole situation ..

By openly admiring and supporting a doper because of the very performances that doping produced, one incentivises that doping. On some level one becomes accessory to it, and everything it entails. I prefer not to have that kind of blood on my hands. And yes, it's hard in this sport not to get some. But I try my best.

Grandstanding and hyperbole, eh? I'm afraid I will have to insist that the man has a point whether you like it or not.

Anyways, off to watch TdS.

 

[Granville57]

I'm afraid I will have to insist that the man has a point whether you like it or not.

But what is that point, exactly?

Since we're no longer even close to the topic of the thread, and the report function doesn't even work anyway, I may as well jump into the fray on this one.

For all the histrionics, Martin has yet to explain just how it is that these fans in question supposedly have blood on their hands.

Is he referring to the roadside fans who yell and cheer for their favorite doper, thereby emboldening them to push the limits further? If so, he may have a point worth discussing, but I would still take issue with it.

Is he referring to someone who posts something online in support of their favorite doper? If so, he has yet to provide any evidence that such a thing would contribute to doping by said rider.

Is he, as hitch mentioned, referring to the fan who watches the races on TV or computer, in the privacy of their own home, and feels good about seeing his or her favorite doper succeed? Because if so, than Martin has a lot of explaining to do.

Just what is it that these fans do that make them complicit in the doping? Does Martin seriously believer that these riders dope because of encouragement and support from fans?

If so, I would love for Martin to explain the doping that goes on in the U.S. Masters scene.


[Edit]
Actually, I'm not even going to respond further here to this topic. It belongs in its own thread, so I'll wait for a mod to move the entire conversation.

 

[Granville57]

From the 2011 Vuelta TT;

Truly astounding that in light of that excerpt, Froome has the audacity to criticize Nibali for daring to suggest that Team Sky "race by the numbers" and spend their time "huddled over their SRMs." Indeed, where did Vincenzo ever come up with such a blatantly unfair assessment of these emotionally driven road warriors?

 

[Granville57]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-polishes-his-tour-de-france-form-in-the-dolomites

Studying Froome's power data

Slongo revealed he has studied Froome's attacks in detail, using video content on the internet and television footage.

"I've studied his accelerations, how long they last and his cadence," he claimed

"Froome weighed between 65-66kg at the Dauphine, Contador was 63kg. They produced about 400-410 watts at threshold and when they attack, they can hold 430 watts for between 20-30 minutes. Froome accelerates for 20-30 seconds, with peaks of 450-480 wats. The he eases back and stays at 380-400 watts. Due to physiological limits, this phase can last between 10-15 minutes, not more."

That's really quite interesting. Funny that I never bothered to click on that article based on the headline: Nibali polishes his form in the Dolomites, because based on that, it seemed the headline was the article. I thought, OK, good to know. Next...

Whereas the headline most certainly should have been: Nibali using science to control Froome's attacks. Now that I would've clicked on.

I only bring this up because CN (like most) actively and consciously try to come up with "click-generating" headlines, to the point of being absurd quite often. But they completely missed the boat on this one.


[Edit]
Here's what I remember:

Join the Cyclingnews team
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cyclingnews-online-production-editor-required-north-america

Job Responsibilities:

Generate, develop, and write bylined feature articles and news content.
Manage daily posting of news content.

Write and edit all headlines for maximum click potential.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Erm, ok.

May I remind you of the sentence that started this whole situation ..

By openly admiring and supporting a doper because of the very performances that doping produced, one incentivises that doping

Grandstanding and hyperbole, eh? I'm afraid I will have to insist that the man has a point whether you like it or not.

Anyways, off to watch TdS.

Openly admiring and supporting a doper, incentivises that doping?

That right there is hyperbole: exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech.

The person / team / company that pays the rider is what incentivises the rider to dope. Not someone clapping or cheering or even writing positively about them. IMO that is a ridiculous position to take.

 

[martinvickers]

I couldn't give two ****s

Better hope to God it's not Berti's blood on some roadside, then....remember how upset you got over his fit video. Let's hope for your sake that's as bad as it ever gets...

 

[martinvickers]

Using peoples death to push your agenda? classy as always Martin.

Have the mods stopped reading the clinic?

Their deaths, and trying to reduce, them IS the agenda.

But I don't expect you to get that sort of thing.

 

[martinvickers]

I placed a bet on contador to win the tdf. 17-1 he was. Now ill be cheering for him.

Do I have blood on my hands?

In my view? Yes. Let's hope your money doesn't slip out of your hand.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Better hope to God it's not Berti's blood on some roadside, then....remember how upset you got over his fit video. Let's hope for your sake that's as bad as it ever gets...

revolting. insinuating barracking for a rider is the reason said rider might die / have an accident in a race due to doping.

is what I typed to report the post, but reporting is broken.

 

[Benotti69]

Vickers is big supporter of 100metre sprinters.....talk about blood on hands, when is the last time one of them were clean?

 

[Digger]

The funny thing is, Martin doesn't hold the people who actually defended doping, responsible. Wiggins defended lance time and time again and even shot down a witness, but he isn't responsible.
Vickers was furious when I edited liggetts wiki page to include his ludicrous accusations of conspiracy directed against usada, the insults the lies.He doesn't hold vaughters personally responsible for pantanis death, even though jv was actually doping at the time (not that I would either but I don't hold present day fans responsible). But a decade later, fans who watch a race on tv and mark in the privacy of their own homes for one guy over another, oh, there's your guilty party. These are the people with Piratas blood on their hands.

Unbelievable

Why?!!!!!!!!

 

[MrRoboto]

Subtlety doesn't seem to be his strongest side.

 

[deValtos]

@ Granville & DearWiggo about why supporting dopers doesn't help imo, I wrote this on another thread so thought I'd just copy paste

From what I understood a large part of cycling's doping problem was driven mostly by the culture encompassing the sport that made it just as acceptable for a cyclist to take drugs as to have a simple drink. How was that atmosphere created ? UCI wanting $$$, journalists riding the gravy train, media downplaying and not investigating doping issues and importantly fans that don't give a crap if their rider was on the juice.

The atmosphere of any environment implicitly impacts the social conduct of anyone in it. Place the exact same person into a situation with a negative atmosphere (over a positive one) and they perform worse/care less - there's been many psychology studies confirming this. I remember reading in Tyler Hamilton's book he said (most of) his fellow dopers were not morally bad people, they were "victims" of the times.

Like I said in my first paragraph fans have a part to play in this too, you can see in sports like american football, soccer, hockey (etc) where fans could not care one damn bit whether their team is using and that encourages the athletes in the wrong direction by cheering them on.

You could say what difference does one person watching a cycle race on TV sitting in their living room make though by backing dopers (or clean riders) ? It's a fair point and similar to say voting in a big government election where one vote never ever makes the difference, so why would you actually vote if your vote essentially doesn't count, why does anyone? I guess because it does make a difference, you don't how many people you can influence just by talking with friends, posting on forums etc

If you care about cycling I don't think it's right to encourage dopers in any way. It's part of the problem, albeit a very very very small part, but a part nonetheless.

Anyways that's why I think you shouldn't root for some dopers

 

[gooner]

Surely if anyone has "blood on their hands" it must be the masses that blindly support dopers rather than asking questions, you know like the clinic does.

You mean guys who support Horner and Contador and only question Froome/Sky. Oh that wouldn't be you, would it?

 

[the sceptic]

Better hope to God it's not Berti's blood on some roadside, then....remember how upset you got over his fit video. Let's hope for your sake that's as bad as it ever gets...

go **** yourself Martin.