The Climb (Froome's first autobiography)

[SeriousSam]

By openly admiring and supporting a doper because of the very performances that doping produced, one incentivises that doping. On some level one becomes accessory to it, and everything it entails. I prefer not to have that kind of blood on my hands. And yes, it's hard in this sport not to get some. But I try my best.

I don't believe you try your best. The greatest incentive to dope comes from the rewards of winning, which is inseparable from the sport thriving. To try one's best not to create incentives for doping is to abandon and ignore the sport. That's true in any sport.

Of course, you can choose to portray your preference of one rider over another as trying to minimise dope-incentive-creation given that you aren't willing to go quite as far as abandoning the sport entirely. But on some level, everyone realises that the individual's contribution to such things is negligible. You want to avoid that kind of blood on your hands? Then do whatever you like because it has no effect on anything. None. Who you cheer for or not cheer for has no consequences.

Still, perhaps you don't care about consequences and it's really about being principled (well, semi principled because you're not giving up the sport, nor are you not rooting for riders who have a good chance of being dopers!) Maybe, but I think what's actually going on is that you've given us a rationalisation here. What's actually behind people forming preferences over riders isn't the outcome of some tricky moral arithmetic. It's much more mundane.

Which is a rather long winded way of saying Neo-fan Brits get up your nose, no?

Not quite. Neo-fan Brits don't make me furious qua being neo-fan Brits. It makes me furious if what attracts them to the sport is the belief that Sky's scientific approach and Froome's hard work has finally proved victorious against cheating, lazy, doping foreigners.

More to the point, every rider who dopes and rides is a hypocrite. Every single one.

I'm sure you know this, but it's not a binary thing. There are degrees of hypocrisy. Some hypocrites are just unbearable and make me absolutely furious with anger. Others I can tolerate.

 

[Netserk]

Of course, the unwavering defence line is snitty boll0x, but we'll let it go and take the point on principle. Blood on your hands comes from being an accessory to the doping, by cheering the doper KNOWING he's a doper. There's no way to be an accessory unknowingly, so no, even on its own merits the silly snitty little line makes no sense. If, as I suspect, Froome is a doper, and he brings down Sky, you'll see no tears from me.

So it's perfectly fine to be an Armstrong defender as long as you are ignorant?

 

[Digger]

Vickers is fan of Andrew "leave Lance alone" Talansky according to his twitter

So Martin has blood on his hands also surely - by supporting a guy who supports a doper.
In fact, as Talansky and Martin and being supported by 'former' dopers, don't their fans also have blood on their hands. It's a blood bath.

 

[thehog]

Froome accusing Contador of cheating the bike weight limits and using a "special lube" !

 

[LaFlorecita]

Reducing fiction

 

[LaFlorecita]

Froome accusing Contador of cheating the bike weight limits and using a "special lube" !

Surely they were only marginal gains

 

[the sceptic]

Surely they were only marginal gains

Wheel without friction, thats 40 watts right there.

 

[thehog]

Reducing fiction

"I'm tired of all these doping accusations and innuendo... Oh by the way, see that spanish amigo over there? There's gossip that he's using a lighter bike than is allowed and using a special lube...... but anyway, enough of these innuendos about doping, I'm sick of them, its unfair"

 

[LaFlorecita]

More "fiction" from the Dawg/Walsh combo.... Contador would have to ride 15k on his own through the valley, taking all the wind.

Except he wasn't alone, Kreuziger was with him.

They found Contador changing his bike. It seemed pointless to go on the attack and then sit up and change his bike.

Unfortunately for Dawg, Contador was caught long before he changed his bike. He dropped back from the peloton at the foot of the Alpe to do the bike change.

Also:

"... throw himself down the descent, risking life and limb to get some time back."

I would be eternally grateful it he stopped portraying Contador as some idiot who'd give his life to win a race.

 

[LaFlorecita]

"I'm tired of all these doping accusations and innuendo... Oh by the way, see that spanish amigo over there? There's gossip that he's using a lighter bike than is allowed and using a special lube...... but anyway, enough of these innuendos about doping, I'm sick of them, its unfair"

Haven't you heard hog? There's rules for Da Dawg and rules for the rest.

 

[Race Radio]

Froome accusing Contador of cheating the bike weight limits and using a "special lube" !

The rumors about the "Special lube" have been around for years. Contador, and his mechanic, are obsessive about drive train friction. He used to use one of the big Berner cages, until SRAM got him to stop. Faustino Munoz dismantles his drive-train every day so there has often been talk about him using a very light lube that cannot stand up to use, or rain.

Sounds like a bit overkill, maybe saves 3 watts.

 

[thehog]

The rumors about the "Special lube" have been around for years. Contador, and his mechanic, are obsessive about drive train friction. He used to use one of the big Berner cages, until SRAM got him to stop. Faustino Munoz dismantles his drive-train every day so there has often been talk about him using a very light lube that cannot stand up to use, or rain.

Sounds like a bit overkill, maybe saves 3 watts.

Not rumour but rather a cut and paste from a story on cyclingnews. Well done you

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-alberto-contadors-astana-specialized-s-works-tarmac-sl3

Contador's rig is awash in a few notable component upgrades as well. SRAM already provides the two-time Tour de France winner with its new Red LTE group but the rear derailleur is further augmented with a specially fitted Berner oversized carbon fibre cage and pulley wheels for lower drivetrain friction - or at least, so says the theory.

 

[thehog]

Reducing fiction

The story is explained here but didn't stop Walsh/Froome from making up a story to accuse Contador of cheating!

Q.Nick,
During this past Tour, I read that Alberto Contador’s chain lube was a two-step process. First light oil was applied and then sealed in with a layer of grease on the outer surfaces. How common is this? What kind of chain lubes/combos are most common in the peloton? How variable is lube preference between teams and conditions (rain, sun, cobbles, mud, dusty …)? Who ultimately decides what type of lube goes on? I imagine there may be sponsorships, rider preference and mechanic preference all playing into a potentially interesting dynamic.
— Brad Nelson

Brad,
Lube. Man, I get a lot of questions about chain lube! But then that makes sense. Keeping a drivetrain clean and properly lubed is one of the least expensive ways to improve a bicycle.

Contador’s mechanic is not alone in his two-step process. It is a good one, especially in wet conditions. The idea is that the grease keeps the lighter oil on the chains rollers where it needs to be. You’ll see a lot of team mechanics doing this, especially at the classics where weather turns quickly and the races are long. I’ve used it many times and the method accomplishes two things very well.

One: The chain stays quiet over a long wet race. When weather has come in unexpectedly, I’ve had riders come back to the team car for more chain lube mid-stage but never after we greased chains.

Two: The chain, derailleurs cassette and crank are absolutely filthy. Without a doubt washing the bike takes longer. Grease will accumulate in nooks and crannies and can be difficult to remove.

While a good lube method for very long, very wet pro races, I do NOT recommend it for most riders. It is simply unnecessary for most rides. How often do you go for a seven-hour ride in the rain? If you do, have your head checked instead of worrying about chain lube!

Team mechanics vary lube by length of race and conditions. A six-kilometer prologue in the rain doesn’t require much lube. Neither does a cool, dry 150-kilometer stage. I’m a fan of wet lubes for most conditions, but that’s a product of daily bike washes. More recently I’ve used dry lubes on my personal bikes and really liked it.

It is ultimately up to the mechanic to decide on the lube of the day. Riders rarely complain unless they are getting a lot of noise out of their drivetrain. I always try to stay sponsor-correct whenever I can. Many mechanics have preferences and will hide their personal lube and put sponsor items on display, but this is rare. Many brands in Europe are not readily available here. Morgan Blue and Sapim lubes are popular, so is Motorex (which is now imported and I’m testing it).

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011...-step-chain-lubing_156249#9AU3GwW3gGTekFfJ.99

 

[Race Radio]

Not rumour but rather a cut and paste from a story on cyclingnews. Well done you

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/pro-bike-alberto-contadors-astana-specialized-s-works-tarmac-sl3

Nope, You get your info from Cyclingnews, my source is my friend Jason who has work for SRAM for a decade. Note there is nothing in there about how Fausto dismantles the drive train daily or how it does not stand up to rain, where did I "Cut and paste" that from?

Funny how you knew about the special lube rumor but still chose to mock it. Wonder what Brodeal would call that?

your unhinged obsession

 

[LaFlorecita]

The rumors about the "Special lube" have been around for years. Contador, and his mechanic, are obsessive about drive train friction. He used to use one of the big Berner cages, until SRAM got him to stop. Faustino Munoz dismantles his drive-train every day so there has often been talk about him using a very light lube that cannot stand up to use, or rain.

Sounds like a bit overkill, maybe saves 3 watts.

Overkill, yet Froome feels the need to draw attention to it.

 

[Race Radio]

Overkill, yet Froome feels the need to draw attention to it.

Contador should tell Froome the secret ingredient in his lube......is Coffee.

 

[thehog]

Nope, You get your info from Cyclingnews, my source is my friend Jason who has work for SRAM for a decade. Note there is nothing in there about how Fausto dismantles the drive train daily or how it does not stand up to rain, where did I "Cut and paste" that from?

Funny how you knew about the special lube rumor but still chose to mock it. Wonder what Brodeal would call that?

Jason Phillips from SRAM? The guy who supplies all the press releases to Cyclingnews?

Awesome.

The Cyclingnews and VeloNews articles I posted had all the details. There's no insider information here.

Just a cut and paste job on your behalf.

As usual (and aside from the obvious answer - the rider), the difference lies in the custom aesthetic and mechanical touches that have been applied plus the manner to which it's prepared by Contador's master mechanic, Faustino Munoz.

Not to go overlooked is the manner in which Munoz puts this all together. As we've noticed in years past, Contador's drivetrain is among the smoothest and drag-free we've ever encountered, likely helped along by a full ceramic bearing package (Munoz has used Enduro as a supplier before but we're unsure what's included here) and his 'secret sauce' chain lube mix that first uses a coating of light oil that's then sealed in with a layer of grease on the outer surfaces.

Contador’s mechanic is not alone in his two-step process. It is a good one, especially in wet conditions. The idea is that the grease keeps the lighter oil on the chains rollers where it needs to be. You’ll see a lot of team mechanics doing this, especially at the classics where weather turns quickly and the races are long. I’ve used it many times and the method accomplishes two things very well.

One: The chain stays quiet over a long wet race. When weather has come in unexpectedly, I’ve had riders come back to the team car for more chain lube mid-stage but never after we greased chains.

 

[thehog]

Overkill, yet Froome feels the need to draw attention to it.

Absurd considering the entire book is about "marginal gains" adds to Sky's wining formula yet Froome (Walsh) also citie marginal gains for Contador is cheating?

 

[martinvickers]

When you were praising Valverde after Roma Maxima, was their blood on your hands?

link? I might have admired his ride - i strongly doubt I supported him.

 

[Race Radio]

Awesome.

So cute how you feel compelled to respond to my every post. Some might call that a

unhinged obsession

But I wouldn't. Far too classy for such course language.

 

[thehog]

So cute how you feel compelled to respond to my every post. Some might call that a

But I wouldn't. Far too classy for such course language.

Not at all. It is you who responded to my post in the first instance on this topic.

I happily ignore your posts but you can't help responding my me. I've even requested the mods for both of us not reply for the benefit of the forum but you refuse.

So... ummm... some might call that.... pot, kettle, black?

 

[Race Radio]

Not at all. It is you who responded to my post in the first instance on this topic.

I happily ignore your posts but you can't help responding my me. I've even requested the mods for both of us not reply for the benefit of the forum but you refuse.

So... ummm... some might call that.... pot, kettle, black?

Did you read what I wrote? I added context to the discussion. I did not attack you, bait you, nada. Just explained more about a topic that has been widely discussed for a long time.....For some reason you felt threaten by this and responded with your normal baiting and trolling and babble about cut and paste.

Who knew the discussion of lube was so threatening to some people

 

[thehog]

Did you read what I wrote? I added context to the discussion. I did not attack you, bait you, nada. Just explained more about a topic that has been widely discussed for a long time.....For some reason you felt threaten by this and responded with your normal baiting and trolling and babble about cut and paste.

Who knew the discussion of lube was so threatening to some people

I feel very threatened by lube... Don't we all?

You'll be fine RR. Let it be. And allow me to post on Armstrong threads without taking offence to me wanting to add context to the discussion.

 

[kingjr]

You're a pretty disgusting person hog, do you know that?

 

[Digger]

You're a pretty disgusting person hog, do you know that?

Is that you Jason?