The Crostis Descent

[Escarabajo]

The first part of the first video was the road from Ravascletto to the start of the sterrato, though it was edited. Until the sterrato starts, I don't see it as too ridiculously out of the ordinary as a descent; it's narrow but not too crazy. It's the sterrato that's the problem.

That video showed the rider climbing from Ravascletto to the sterrato (edited), then a long period of them riding along the sterrato to the peak of Monte Crostis, then turning round and going back to the end of the sterrato, rather than continuing down towards Tualis on the road the Giro will climb.

I thought it was very bad road. IMHO. Only near the base or towns it was Ok.

But hey, the definition of danger is different for everybody. For me the bar is lower than this descent.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Think you should rewatch some GTs Contador won. Your post is quite silly.

Think what some people are forgetting is that this sport is called road racing and not cyclocross.

Strade Bianche is cool and all, but when a top favorite loses time on it because of a stupid mechanical then it just faked your whole GT.

Contador didn't seem to care to attack after he lost more than a minute on Andy in the cobbled stage because of someone else his crash and mechanicals he had. If Contador has good form this Giro will turn boring to you guys anyway, no matter how hard the route is.

I know it is hard for you but you could just hold your hands up and admit that you misread my post. Is your ego really that frail?

The rest of your post doesn't make any sense. Nevermind.

 

[VeloCity]

Unfortunately, and I say this with the maximum respect, this was do to his own momentary lack of attention, not the course.

How do you know that it wasn't due in part to the course? I keep reading that it was due to a "momentary lack of attention", but that's as much an assumption as anything. And I doubt that a rider on a tricky, technical descent so close to the finish is not paying attention. IMO a pro rider who veers to one side while trying to look behind him, as he's done a million times before, is a sign of rider who's exhausted.

 

[The Hitch]

I already offered a couple of alternatives - a cat.2 or 3 Sella Valcalda then Zonc from Sutrio (like in 2003), or going around the south, climbing to Lauco or Plugna for probably a cat.3, to Sutrio, over Sella Valcalda from the east then to Zonc from Ovaro.

They may just shorten the Crostis loop by taking the main road from Tualis to Ravascletto instead of the Strade Panoramica (like in 2007).

But none of those is anywhere near as hard right?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But none of those is anywhere near as hard right?

No, hence why my preferred option is the one with Sella Valcalda and an added climb before it near Tolmezze. This would lengthen the stage by a bit and add two not-so-difficult climbs instead of one really difficult one. Hopefully the added length and more numerous climbs could offset the loss of Crostis. Probably not, but it would do a better job of it than subbing in one lesser climb or cutting the loop out entirely and making it a shootout on the Zonc.

 

[Escarabajo]

The first part of the first video was the road from Ravascletto to the start of the sterrato, though it was edited. Until the sterrato starts, I don't see it as too ridiculously out of the ordinary as a descent; it's narrow but not too crazy. It's the sterrato that's the problem.

That video showed the rider climbing from Ravascletto to the sterrato (edited), then a long period of them riding along the sterrato to the peak of Monte Crostis, then turning round and going back to the end of the sterrato, rather than continuing down towards Tualis on the road the Giro will climb.

Here's a review from climbbybike from the route the Giro will take:
"This climb,in the Friulian mountains of north-east Italy (near the famous Zoncolan) is a very regular and beautiful climb. In the last 14km you gain a height of about 1390meters. In the last section (about 2km before you reach the top) the sloopes raise (for about 400m)up to 18%. Until you reach the little village Tualis you have a nice view over the Val Degano valley. Then you enter a forest(you are on a height of about 900m. The only thing you will see for about 10km are trees... (pinewood). The road is in a very good condition. The traffic is very low. In fact, during my climb i did not see a single car. Only in the last 3-4 km you get a view over the Val Calda Valley and Monte Zoncolan. You cbn not reach the summit of the Crostis (2251m) by bike. A footpath is the only solution. On the summit you really heve a fabulous view of as wel the north as the south of the region. Back to the bike road: the west summit and the east summit are separated bij a 5km long ofroad track; only with a mountain bike you can ride the whole part of the track. Going down the other side (to Ravascletto) is a nice option. The road is also in an excellent condition with hardly no traffic (except tourists...) "

I am sure I can climb that with my wife behind me in a motorcycle during a beautiful summer day without 200 riders and caravan behind and in front of me. I can even slow down and stop near those cliffs and take pictures with my camera.

Don't get me wrong Libertine but doing that during competition is different. IMHO.

 

[therhodeo]

How do you know that it wasn't due in part to the course? I keep reading that it was due to a "momentary lack of attention", but that's as much an assumption as anything. And I doubt that a rider on a tricky, technical descent so close to the finish is not paying attention. IMO a pro rider who veers to one side while trying to look behind him, as he's done a million times before, is a sign of rider who's exhausted.

The things you are arguing are ridiculous. I feel for you because you really seem unable to look at this tragic event with any sort of objectivity. You've argued the same points over and over in different threads. The sad thing is that your points only serve to make everyone point out that it was probably Wouter's lack of attention that cost him his life. Why is passing the blame to someone else so important to you?

 

[hrotha]

The things you are arguing are ridiculous. I feel for you because you really seem unable to look at this tragic event with any sort of objectivity. You've argued the same points over and over in different threads. The sad thing is that your points only serve to make everyone point out that it was probably Wouter's lack of attention that cost him his life. Why is passing the blame to someone else so important to you?

I guess some people's gut reaction to pointing at "human error" as the reason for any kind of accident is that it's disrespectful to the deceased. Personally I don't understand that. We're all human, we all make mistakes, some of them cost us dearly.

 

[therhodeo]

I guess some people's gut reaction to pointing at "human error" as the reason for any kind of accident is that it's disrespectful to the deceased. Personally I don't understand that. We're all human, we all make mistakes, some of them cost us dearly.

Wouter is not the first person to lose their life because of a mistake made while practicing their chosen vocation. My grandpa lost his hand to a piece of machinery due to a lapse of concentration. No disrespect from me.

 

[hrotha]

Wouter is not the first person to lose their life because of a mistake made while practicing their chosen vocation. My grandpa lost his hand to a piece of machinery due to a lapse of concentration. No disrespect from me.

Exactly.

But for some people, blaming external factors is a coping mechanism, so I won't go too hard on VeloCity.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am sure I can climb that with my wife behind me in a motorcycle during a beautiful summer day without 200 riders and caravan behind and in front of me. I can even slow down and stop near those cliffs and take pictures with my camera.

Don't get me wrong Libertine but doing that during competition is different. IMHO.

Very true it's different during competition. But the actual descent is only the first 10'20" of part 1. I don't see that that is any worse than a few other descents we've seen in other races. The East and West roads (we didn't see ANYTHING of the West road, which they'll be climbing, in those videos) look to be eminently usable.

It's the Strade Panoramica delle Vette, which accounts for most of those videos, over the off-road section, that causes all the trouble. A bit of ski netting on a few corners and the descent will be absolutely fine. It's the flat bit at the top on the off-road track that worries me.

 

[The Hitch]

No, hence why my preferred option is the one with Sella Valcalda and an added climb before it near Tolmezze. This would lengthen the stage by a bit and add two not-so-difficult climbs instead of one really difficult one. Hopefully the added length and more numerous climbs could offset the loss of Crostis. Probably not, but it would do a better job of it than subbing in one lesser climb or cutting the loop out entirely and making it a shootout on the Zonc.

My opinion on this is best expressed by altering a few words in the description and script from a Simpsons episode

At the bottom of the Zoncolan, the mass break of speed as a 60km/h peloton hits the Zoncolan creates a sonic boom.
"Wow!" gasp the Italians.

As the climb progresses, the two clowns (Menchov and Scarponi ) jump across the gap to Contador and Nibali. As each takes a sip of the drink, at the same time, the appearence of 4 riders side by side with 1 hand in the air causes them to resemble the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse on the climb known as the "doorway to hell".

"Ah!" gasp the Italians.

The antics don't stop there, however. Towards the top of the Zoncolan, Contador's head plays "The Godfather" theme music on the wine bottles dangling from the top of the last tunnel.
The Italians even applaud,

But Vittorio moans,

"Ah, but without Crostis, it is nothing," cocking his gun again.

 

[hrotha]

This is a recent video of the off-road section. Notice the poles for the nets:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRgafqkWx-Y&feature=player_embedded

It looks much more doable. The main problem I can see with that section is the vehicles. I don't know how bad the actual descent actually is (even if it's paved, it may still be way too narrow or something, I have no idea).

 

[El Pistolero]

Seems to me that you can't read properly. Two points within one post.

The first is posters exploiting Weylandt's death as a reason to legitimise the removal of certain descents.

The second point is the Garmin riders complaining. Garmin who complain about everything and seem to want cycling to take place in a lab rather than on the road.

Did Millar crash on Strada Bianchi yesterday? No, he crashed because he couldn't ride in a straight line on a piece of ordinary road.

If riders think a descent is dangerous then here is a clue - ride down it more slowly. No one is forcing them to ride every stage at 45km/h.

The reality is that Strada Bianchi, cobbles etc are being added into GT's because the style of racing that most teams and GC riders adopt is boring. Saxo/HGH/Astana train ripping the legs off everyone before Dertie does dance on his pedals for the last km, or Frodo pops out for the last 200m.

Crashes happen all the time - are we going to ban bunch sprints in case a bad crash happens, are we going to ban cobbles, or every tricky descent 'in case an accident happens'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx3s5E40wQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WOhvPcgo50&feature=related

No, I did not misread your post, but the bolded part was pretty much the only thing I responded to.

Yeah, only in the last km right

 

[Mambo95]

"Ah, but without Crostis, it is nothing,"

Nobody was complaining about the lack of the Crostis last year. Just the Zoncolan was enough to get it voted 2nd in your 'GT stage of the year' poll.

 

[La Pandera]

I completely agree. Based on the limited views I've seen, this is not a place for a GT caravan to be venturing. Let the camera and neutral service motos up and down to support the riders but for God's sake, make the caravan and team cars pull off at Runchia and rejoin the peloton at Povolaro or wherever the bottom of the descent rejoins the valley road to Ovaro.

Didn't they have to do the same, divert the team cars from the final km's, of the new climb that was introduced near the end of last year's Vuelta?
That final segment had parts that looked like no more than the width of a sidewalk and steep as hell!

 

[hrotha]

Didn't they have to do the same, divert the team cars from the final km's, of the new climb that was introduced near the end of last year's Vuelta?
That final segment had parts that looked like no more than the width of a sidewalk and steep as hell!

Yes, but that was just a couple of kilometers. This might be up to 45 km.

 

[benpounder]

That's not a road it's a singletrack. If motorcycles coming in opposite directions have to slow down to pass then how are they gonna get the circus of team cars through?

Same way the Vuelta has always dealt with L'Angiru - No caravan, no team cars, only motorcycles.

 

[danjo007]

DQ any ***** that doesnt want to ride down

 

[Teddler]

It seems to me that as we learn more about the Crostis it is becoming clear that the descent itself is not an issue, it is in fact the unpaved flat part linking the summit to the descent.

If this is the case and it is only 6-7kms, surely you could neutralise that 6-7kms and start again 20 or 25 minutes later at the start of the asphalt. That would seem a relatively easy solution.

Unfortunately it seems more and more likely that Crostis will be scrapped entirely which would be bitterly disappointing.

 

[benpounder]

It seems to me that as we learn more about the Crostis it is becoming clear that the descent itself is not an issue, it is in fact the unpaved flat part linking the summit to the descent.

Watching the videos of the motorscooter traversing most of that section, I can see why some are concerned. However, that video must be filtered through the knowledge that was captured by a wide angle lens (22mm?) atop a motorized vehicle. Thus filtered, I realize that I have ridden many such paths, mostly on my mountain bike, but occasionally on my road bike. Furthermore, we must acknowledge that when that stretch in encountered, the field will be strung out along 15km of road. With the start of the final climb another 30 minutes ahead, and 5-7km of flat gravel, I doubt many are going to be pushing it in that particular section.

That said, if it is wet, raining, or snowing, it probably shouldn't be used.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Same way the Vuelta has always dealt with L'Angiru - No caravan, no team cars, only motorcycles.

Not true. I remember cars getting stuck on the date of Heras' victory on the Angliru.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Same way the Vuelta has always dealt with L'Angiru - No caravan, no team cars, only motorcycles.

That is a mountain top finish, this is in the late/middle of the stage, anyone held up by a mechanical here is done for this years Giro.

 

[benpounder]

Not true. I remember cars getting stuck on the date of Heras' victory on the Angliru.

If I recall correctly, those were official vehicles, not as I listed, team or caravan vehicles.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If I recall correctly, those were official vehicles, not as I listed, team or caravan vehicles.

Actually, I thought they were team cars. Maybe I'm wrong.