The cycling fan's hypocritical parallel world ;-)

[auscyclefan94]

http://www.sbs.com.au/cyclingcentral/blog-article/122442/Reading-the-rule-book

Another very average article from Tomalaris. This guy is clueless.



I was brought up to believe a person is innocent until proven guilty so it amazes me how so many so-called "cycling experts" are prepared to hang both riders for allegedly using performance-enhancing substances without a fair trial.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but how anyone can unequivocally call these guys drug cheats is beyond me.

Sure, we can all make assumptions, and there's every possibility the Tour de France winners may have dabbled in doping. But where's the proof? I don't have any - do you?

How anyone can point the finger at Contador and/or Armstrong for their possible links to cheating when none of us really know the full details of their individual situations?

Armstrong never tested positive despite undergoing countless dope tests in a career spanning some 20 years.

If either or both are eventually proven to have cheated, only then do we throw the book at them and discard them forever for misleading and cheating on us for so long.

 

[alpine_chav]

Simple answer... I don't care what any athletes put into their bodies I just want a spectacle. I cycle because I enjoy it not because idiots get paid to wear big brands and sprint up mountains in France. If there was no racing at all I'd still enjoy cycling.

 

[flicker]

Funny picture/note.

But, Estonia, you are a new poster. Hopefully not a paid shill.

But, in your first (second?) post, you have already gone after another of the classic Lance defenses - Greg must have done it.

Here is the deal. I will be as strident about pursuing any firm evidence on Lemond as I have been on posting about Lance or any other doper.

You find it, I will support you.

But, I will not and cannot support what does not exist.

It is impossible to conceive that Lance wouldn't have already have paid a lot of money to try and uncover some dirt.

In case you were not aware, Lance lost in the Trek versus Lemond action.

This is a lost cause. Suggest you leave sleeping dogs alone.

Dave.

Alright already we know your guy is a snowman and my guy is a coal man.

Really for me it is about the personality. If you like say, Lemond, or my Lance or Cadel or Leipheimer. For me it is not so much about the drugging or cheating, but about the period of my life when I had the time and motivation to watch cycling.

My time was when during the Merckx era, and now and looking back on the epic 1999-2005 battles on DVD. I was in the bike shop yesterday and they were playing the 2004 Vuelta, section in the race, big mountains, screen split into 4 . Heras, Valverde and Mancebo batteling it out, going really fast uphill.
Floyd on the front cover of the vhs, wearing gold.

I really have no issue with what has happened. The Fifa, UCI, IOC and its clone WADA have provided us with the stage cycling enjoys, so why not enjoy the show.

 

[datalore]

Common. Let's be honest. We don't care about clean or not. We want action. We want Riccò and Lance rockets shooting up the mountains. We want action.

I agree that the doping element of cycling adds an interesting angle to the sport. A lot of people seem to find the mystery intriguing. I would gladly trade the mystery for the knowledge that the riders are clean, but at this point, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

 

[Estonia77]

Don't be coy. Give me a break. You know what the riders are doing. We all know. And we can all see what it looks like. The culprit here, the primary culprit, is oxygen-vector drugs. A secondary but still significant factor is hormone abuse.

To which you've now added . . . Botox. Right.

Hardly being 'coy' my good fellow.

coy/koi/Adjective
1. (esp. of a woman) Making a pretense of shyness or modesty that is intended to be alluring but is often regarded as irritating.

I am sorry but your wistful feelings towards me are off target.

As far as the Botox comment ... uhm ... one must learn to detect sarcasm.

 

[flicker]

I agree that the doping element of cycling adds an interesting angle to the sport. A lot of people seem to find the mystery intriguing. I would gladly trade the mystery for the knowledge that the riders are clean, but at this point, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

It is really about who the UCI or the faux doping authorities decide in their witch hunting gruppo who will be the next toad, or sacrificial lamb.

 

[Met de Versnelling]

Someone higher up the thread said AC follows Lance tactics in prepping and riding the tour.

That's rubbish, AC rodes lots of the one week tours of February onwards up to the Tour, and animated and won many of them.

He's also done a Giro-Vuelta double, and it's a common belief he will target a Giro-Tour double, at least once.

Tell me where Armstrong EVER did this, except for riding the Dauphine, he did nothing at Algarve, Pais Vasco and the like.

Bad comparison, and i'm not even an AC fan...

-----

ACF mentioned something along the OP's line a few weeks back in a thread he started, and i'll say what i said then, if you have to question why you watch the sport, then you're not really a fan.

The link to Crazy Tommy holding onto the yellow for one more day is why, the perversely beautiful suffering that we see from riders is just one aspect of why i feel in love with the sport, and will never stop loving the sport.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

if you have to question why you watch the sport, then you're not really a fan.

The link to Crazy Tommy holding onto the yellow for one more day is why, the perversely beautiful suffering that we see from riders is just one aspect of why i feel in love with the sport, and will never stop loving the sport.

i imagine when you know that a huge amount for doping goes on and then ask the question why do i watch this sport? you are conflicting with your conscience which is no bad thing. If you know that they dope and watch as a fan and dont question then you are a dope!

Voeckler might have kept the jersey for another few days if the race was clean and that is where the dopers steal from those who are clean. Is Voeckler clean, i dont know, but i haven't seen anything to think he dopes other than he rides a bike in the pro peloton.

 

[Estonia77]

Sympathies ...

Funny picture/note.

But, Estonia, you are a new poster. Hopefully not a paid shill.

But, in your first (second?) post, you have already gone after another of the classic Lance defenses - Greg must have done it.

Here is the deal. I will be as strident about pursuing any firm evidence on Lemond as I have been on posting about Lance or any other doper.

You find it, I will support you.

But, I will not and cannot support what does not exist.

It is impossible to conceive that Lance wouldn't have already have paid a lot of money to try and uncover some dirt.

In case you were not aware, Lance lost in the Trek versus Lemond action.

This is a lost cause. Suggest you leave sleeping dogs alone.

Dave.

Paid shill you say? Uhm ... and who exactly would be paying me? I have zero connections to the cycling industry, with the exception of jumping on my trainer during the cold winter months until the snow clears. Perhaps I should go into marketing? Does it pay well?

I was merely posing a question from the opposite side of the argument. Playing devils advocate if you will. I am sorry that I chose a rider to whom you are emotionally attached ... or perhaps monetarily? I imagine you do a search for the word 'Lemond' the second you log into the forum, and for that matter all other cycling related boards on the WWW. Are you a 'paid shill'? Or … are you … no couldn't be … you are far to busy selling the argument of one's VO2 max.

It seems as you wear blinders my man, being that you are a little behind (er … say 100yrs) with respect to the presence of the use of substances to increase one's performance in endurance sport. Here is a link to start you out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_performance-enhancing_drugs_in_sport

Read it through, take a deep breath and then reflect on your response. Then when you have armed yourself with a little bit of 'knowledge' on the subject, I encourage you to get back to me so that we may then have an educated discussion.

Unfortunately, in this day and age it is 'guilty until proven innocent', and it is the constant pursuit of monetary gain (aka greed) that propels this demon.

As stated in my original post. I am NOT an LA fan. Of course, what he does off the bike is irrelevant to his performance on the bike, however, the fact that he is less than personable (to put it mildly) doesn't help his case in point. I guess despite all his success he was unable to procure a PR firm that had the sense to tell him to simply act like a human being.

Regards,

(future) Paid Shill

 

[D-Queued]

Easy fella.

There is an active PR campaign being funded by HWSNBN.

Are you suggesting this is not the case?

That campaign hinges heavily on sleight-of-hand the premise that if you talk about it enough, and spread enough false acquisations on others, particularly against your critics and detractors, that people will start to believe the BS.

Please trust that I have read that particular Wikipedia page many times. How do you know that I am not a contributor?

You have now suggested twice in this thread that GL doped. Once after being invited to offer some evidence. The best you can do is a generic Wiki page?

Perhaps you are very bright and very clever. I am not suggesting that you are not.

Is the attempt to engage with someone like myself a clever way of repeating false assertions?

If not, then why pursue a dry well?

Dave.

 

[SpeedWay]

what is it that makes this sport so addictive for some like me

As you know its a beautiful sport - it's just people's agendas and prejudices that muck it up. Take it for what it is, as well as for what it's not and you'll never be disappointed.

 

[BotanyBay]

Someone higher up the thread said AC follows Lance tactics in prepping and riding the tour.

That's rubbish, AC rodes lots of the one week tours of February onwards up to the Tour, and animated and won many of them.

He's also done a Giro-Vuelta double, and it's a common belief he will target a Giro-Tour double, at least once.

Tell me where Armstrong EVER did this, except for riding the Dauphine, he did nothing at Algarve, Pais Vasco and the like.

Bad comparison, and i'm not even an AC fan...

+1

Armstrong rode relatively few "Big" races each season during the past 12 years and was able to avoid exposure to in-competition tests that many other riders were absolutely exposed to. And he was not often tested OOC.

 

[Estonia77]

X files

There is an active PR campaign being funded by HWSNBN.

Do you hear the voices too? All I keep hearing in my head is, "Psst … what is your VO2 max … no seriously ... what is your V02 max … damnit … I need to know!"

Regards,

The guy with an apparent hidden agenda (I think someone is following me).

 

[D-Queued]

Do you hear the voices too? All I keep hearing in my head is, "Psst … what is your VO2 max … no seriously ... what is your V02 max … damnit … I need to know!"

Regards,

The guy with an apparent hidden agenda (I think someone is following me).

And, that would be the subject of a different thread.

You think someone is following you? Most people post here with some hope that people will read what they say. Are you asking to be put on ignore?

Dave.

 

[Estonia77]

Please don't read this post.

You think someone is following you? Most people post here with some hope that people will read what they say. Are you asking to be put on ignore?

Dave.

Uhm ...ok ... you obviously read my post. Point being?

Note to self ... Mr. D-Queued lacks the ability to detect both sarcasm and humour.

You have now suggested twice in this thread that GL doped. Once after being invited to offer some evidence.

Uhm … nope. I think I may have just posed a question. Wait … yep …. just a question. Apparently a loaded one from where you sit. Is your tower made of ivory perchance?

Perhaps, I will curtsy to your most sensitive nature and substitute another name then?

I am curious as to how one can state with certainty that a particular rider (er … say Steve Bauer) competed clean?

Oh ... before I forget ... could you also please forward me the name of the PR firm that employs you, as I fear that they are in need of major restructuring. You sir are far too transparent in your agenda.

Oops ... gotta go. Time to take my medication. Damn voices! Merely beckon me when you come out of that defensive stance and wish to explore all sides of the debate in question.