The Evidence

[LauraLyn]

I'm surprised to hear you think that Lance is over the worst of it, I'm more inclined to think it's only just beginning for him.

First of all with your interpretation of "evidence" a lot of that could come out if the Fed case is re-opened.

Secondly, in terms of "evidence" in the court of public opinion things are going to get a lot worse for him.

All casual cycling fans are going to turn on him once it comes out that big George was a witness and Sheryl Crow appeals to two completely different demographics.

Briant: Thanks. You are right. The worse hasn't yet begun for Lance. And indeed his life will likely become "the living hell" he promised others, including the very real possibility the Fed case will be reopened against him.

It could be very well that the Fed case was shut down simply because it could not win in the court of public opinion. That will change soon. So that evidence could then be used in a Federal court room.

"Evidence" in the court of public opinion amounts to anything the media and the general public want to say or write or believe. This Lance's PR understands well. By insisting "the evidence needs to be provided", "wait until the evidence comes out", it is merely saying we don't believe the USADA's decision is real and you should not believe it too. However, judges never make a decision and then release evidence to the public. It never ever happens anywhere. Judges don't say, this is my decision. And then ask to the public if they agree or not. It just don't work that way.

I doubt if Georg or Sheryl will play much of a role as this goes toward the future. As far as Armstrong is concerned, they have played their roles. Arbitration seems unlikely (except maybe Marti). And a Fed case is a long way down the road.

 

[Sem Travões]

I still have one alos

Anyway who cares, I had a lot of fun watching that Landis TdF stage, still don't believe Oscar Pereiro won the Tour.
If you don't catch them in the act forget it

 

[LauraLyn]

Still a ton of them out there. I rode a GranFondo on the weekend, I bet a third of the people were wearing yellow bracelets, or jersies with the stupid yellow bands on the sleeves.

But don't you feel sorry for those folks? I mean, really. It is truly sad.

Really, these people have all be defrauded, cheated.

I think it is impossible to turn someone's hero into a villain without some mediation. This is especially true for the general public. People were given good reasons to believe in Armstrong, even to give him their money.

And all the cancer victims . . . .

Really, we need to insist going toward the future that Armstrong is never allowed near America's young athletes. Really. Not even allowed to say hello to a young rider.

 

[LauraLyn]

I still have one alos

Anyway who cares, I had a lot of fun watching that Landis TdF stage, still don't believe Oscar Pereiro won the Tour.
If you don't catch them in the act forget it

To me this is like saying: If you don't catch your local drug pusher injecting 8th graders, it's ok. Move on.

 

[Benotti69]

People just don't get it. Lance's PR warmed the oven. And the oven is empty. And Lance loves it.

Court (arbitration) decisions are not about evidence. They are about innocence or guilt. Evidence is only provided in court (arbitration) rooms.

Keep waiting for your cake. Keep insisting it is coming. You are being played.

The decision is made. The evidence is no longer relevant.

I'm surprised to hear you think that Lance is over the worst of it, I'm more inclined to think it's only just beginning for him.

First of all with your interpretation of "evidence" a lot of that could come out if the Fed case is re-opened.

Secondly, in terms of "evidence" in the court of public opinion things are going to get a lot worse for him.

All casual cycling fans are going to turn on him once it comes out that big George was a witness and Sheryl Crow appeals to two completely different demographics.

Briant: Thanks. You are right. The worse hasn't yet begun for Lance. And indeed his life will likely become "the living hell" he promised others, including the very real possibility the Fed case will be reopened against him.

It could be very well that the Fed case was shut down simply because it could not win in the court of public opinion. That will change soon. So that evidence could then be used in a Federal court room.

"Evidence" in the court of public opinion amounts to anything the media and the general public want to say or write or believe. This Lance's PR understands well. By insisting "the evidence needs to be provided", "wait until the evidence comes out", it is merely saying we don't believe the USADA's decision is real and you should not believe it too. However, judges never make a decision and then release evidence to the public. It never ever happens anywhere. Judges don't say, this is my decision. And then ask to the public if they agree or not. It just don't work that way.

I doubt if Georg or Sheryl will play much of a role as this goes toward the future. As far as Armstrong is concerned, they have played their roles. Arbitration seems unlikely (except maybe Marti). And a Fed case is a long way down the road.

Hmmmm.

 

[Sem Travões]

To me this is like saying: If you don't catch your local drug pusher injecting 8th graders, it's ok. Move on.

Yes true, but there's still a difference between a drug pusher and a retired drug pusher who's living on his drug money

 

[LauraLyn]

Yes true, but there's still a difference between a drug pusher and a retired drug pusher who's living on his drug money

Retired? Armstrong? Really.

Running triathlons in 2012 until stopped. (Actually on his way to wreck another sport.)

Trek-LiveStrong Junior Team, (yes, owned by yours truly) with the Team Manager, Axel Merckx - yes, Lance's old teammate (doping buddy, if you prefer) both of them turned on to Dr. Ferrari by Axel's loving dad (any guesses?).

The USA Cycling "Lance Armstrong Junior Race Series" - I'm not sure which is more of a disgrace to America - this junior racing series or the Lance Armstrong Foundation, aka, LiveStrong.

We don't allow convicted drug pushers near schools or playgrounds. The same rules should hold for Armstrong. Keep him away from our kids.

Why do you believe Lance's DC PR team? The man ain't, in no way, retired.

 

[Velodude]

Retired? Armstrong? Really.

Running triathlons in 2012 until stopped. (Actually on his way to wreck another sport.)

Trek-LiveStrong Junior Team, (yes, owned by yours truly) with the Team Manager, Axel Merckx - yes, Lance's old teammate (doping buddy, if you prefer) both of them turned on to Dr. Ferrari by Axel's loving dad (any guesses?).

The USA Cycling "Lance Armstrong Junior Race Series" - I'm not sure which is more of a disgrace to America - this junior racing series or the Lance Armstrong Foundation, aka, LiveStrong.

We don't allow convicted drug pushers near schools or playgrounds. The same rules should hold for Armstrong. Keep him away from our kids.

Why do you believe Lance's DC PR team? The man ain't, in now way, retired.

I would suggest he is correct when he refers to Armstrong as a "retired drug pusher".

Armstrong "pushed" PEDs on to members of teams he controlled. He did not employ cyclists on his teams if they were not known to be part of the PED scene. It is part of the conspiracy case against Armstrong as an enabler and supplier by USADA.

In road racing retirement he was a team of one pursuing his marathon and triathlon goals.

 

[LauraLyn]

I would suggest he is correct when he refers to Armstrong as a "retired drug pusher".

Armstrong "pushed" PEDs on to members of teams he controlled. He did not employ cyclists on his teams if they were not known to be part of the PED scene. It is part of the conspiracy case against Armstrong as an enabler and supplier by USADA.

In road racing retirement he was a team of one pursuing his marathon and triathlon goals.

Dude. You should take a peak at the relationship between WTC (Ironman), Lance, and LiveStrong (both of them). "A team of one". Wow, you missed something.

I'm just wondering where Frank Schleck got his drugs for this year's TdF.

If I ever have kids, they ain't never going near Armstrong - and sure as **** ain't gonna ride on a team with anyone who ever associated with him, anyone.

 

[Velodude]

Dude. You should take a peak at the relationship between WTC (Ironman), Lance, and LiveStrong (both of them). "A team of one". Wow, you missed something.

I'm just wondering where Frank Schleck got his drugs for this year's TdF.

If I ever have kids, they ain't never going near Armstrong - and sure as **** ain't gonna ride on a team with anyone who ever associated with him, anyone.

So is he now, allegedly, pushing drugs on to the management and employees of WTC and Livestrong?

Last time I watched triathlons and marathons (London 2012 OG) participants competed as individuals without a caravan of team support vehicles containing DS, mechanics and doctors in close pursuit.

 

[Poursuivant]

Why would the Feds re open the case?

 

[thehog]

Why would the Feds re open the case?

Because crimes have been committed.

 

[hiero2]

Why would the Feds re open the case?

Because it was closed for political reasons. Novitsky was prepared to proceed, but was directed (ordered) to shut it down by his (then) new boss. If it now becomes politically embarrassing that it was not followed through, it will re-open, imo.

 

[LauraLyn]

So is he now, allegedly, pushing drugs on to the management and employees of WTC and Livestrong?

Last time I watched triathlons and marathons (London 2012 OG) participants competed as individuals without a caravan of team support vehicles containing DS, mechanics and doctors in close pursuit.

Help me remember: What is the name of the Italian silver medalist at this year's 2012 London Olympics busted for doping? Who was his doctor?

Do you really believe that Armstrong was racing in all those triathlons without dope? Someone might suggest he even doped to do his jog in Montreal this past week.

But that's not the point The corruption goes much deeper than doping. The triathlon began as this great idea by some guys sitting around in Hawaii who actually knew nothing about cycling. The WTC (Ironman, Inc.) is no gift to the triathlon athlete. Armstrong was its poison.

 

[LauraLyn]

Why would the Feds re open the case?

Hog is right.

Heiro too. But those political reasons are quickly diminishing.

 

[baker0127]

Evidence

Unbelievable, the depths in which these things were taken too!!

 

[Velodude]

Help me remember: What is the name of the Italian silver medalist at this year's 2012 London Olympics busted for doping? Who was his doctor?

Do you really believe that Armstrong was racing in all those triathlons without dope? Someone might suggest he even doped to do his jog in Montreal this past week.

But that's not the point The corruption goes much deeper than doping. The triathlon began as this great idea by some guys sitting around in Hawaii who actually knew nothing about cycling. The WTC (Ironman, Inc.) is no gift to the triathlon athlete. Armstrong was its poison.

Consistent success as a GC contender in road cycling can be attributed to amassing a strong team around that rider.

Not so with marathons or triathlons which are individual events.

But there were no team mates in those sports to support him that would have necessitated arrangements for him to enable them to partake PEDs to assist him.

Armstrong probably was racing in triathlons and marathons as doped to the gills as he was in road cycling. WTC altering the selection criteria for doping control in Panama on the run was obviously designed to benefit only one competitor.

 

[LauraLyn]

Consistent success as a GC contender in road cycling can be attributed to amassing a strong team around that rider.

Not so with marathons or triathlons which are individual events.

But there were no team mates in those sports to support him that would have necessitated arrangements for him to enable them to partake PEDs to assist him.

Armstrong probably was racing in triathlons and marathons as doped to the gills as he was in road cycling. WTC altering the selection criteria for doping control in Panama on the run was obviously designed to benefit only one competitor.

Dude, we're on the same page.

 

[thehog]

Unbelievable, the depths in which these things were taken too!!

We haven't heard the half of it yet.

What I want to hear more about was the 2004 positive.

Looking back on it all no other rider had a chance of winning.

Mayo got close but was dealt with by Hein and Armstrong.

 

[MarkvW]

Why would the Feds re open the case?

Some people here obviously think that an old fraud case, like wine, gets better with age.

 

[LauraLyn]

Some people here obviously think that an old fraud case, like wine, gets better with age.

2012 looks is said to be a good year, according to the connoisseurs.

 

[Sem Travões]

I was being sarcastic, but now i'm worried for tenni... sorry triatholon. Come one does anyone believe in any top ten in the major 3 weeks races of the LA period or before. Those caravans were field hospitals.
I've done some XC races in regional leagues (in Portugal), apart from a t-shirt you win jack **** on those leagues, I only spend money, but even in those races there were chargers, go figure why.

 

[thehog]

However, speaking to journalists at the London Paralympic Games this afternoon, McQuaid stated that Armstrong will be punished should USADA justify the reasons behind their ruling.

"If ultimately the UCI has to sanction, we will have no problems. We've sanctioned many good riders in the past, we've put them out of the sport and we're not afraid to do it with anybody," he said.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-not-shy-away-from-sanctioning-armstrong.html

 

[LauraLyn]

. . . .
"If ultimately the UCI has to sanction, we will have no problems. We've sanctioned many good riders in the past, we've put them out of the sport and we're not afraid to do it with anybody," he said.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-not-shy-away-from-sanctioning-armstrong.html

Looks like Pat might survive.

Not the best possible outcome.

 

[Bushranger]

But don't you feel sorry for those folks? I mean, really. It is truly sad.

Really, these people have all be defrauded, cheated.

I think it is impossible to turn someone's hero into a villain without some mediation. This is especially true for the general public. People were given good reasons to believe in Armstrong, even to give him their money.

And all the cancer victims . . . .

Really, we need to insist going toward the future that Armstrong is never allowed near America's young athletes. Really. Not even allowed to say hello to a young rider.

You are spot on here. Before the believers can give up their hero the world needs to provide them with a new one. Somehow I don't think it will come from the world of cycling. Who would you have advise the young riders? Who is above all the past rubbish?