http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/12/15/sports/AP-CYC-Athlete-of-the-Decade-Armstrong.html
I think this is a factor in how people feel about certain 7-time winners in forums outside of France too.
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"The French public doesn't like people who win,"
- Thread starter Ninety5rpm
- Start date
I think this is a factor in how people feel about certain 7-time winners in forums outside of France too.
Personally I agree with the French. You always like to see new guys win it. I personally am still quite enamored with guys like Contador and Cavendish, but if the former is going to take 2 GTs out of the year with little danger, and Cav wins everything that finishes without an incline he participates in I'm gonna be done with them right quick. It's just a natural thing, you want drama and excitement, not predictability.
Unless of course it's a rider from your own country, in which case it's fantastic.
Unless of course it's a rider from your own country, in which case it's fantastic.
Moondance said:
Spot on, it wouldnt be as bad if the dominant rider had to endure a massive battle each year to win but very often, they dominate completely making the event boring. I enjoyed the first few victories of Indurain and Lance but got very bored of them afterwards, especially Lance as he and his team were so dominant.
To compare, everyone raves about the quality of the English Pemiership but its always the same four teams at the top. This season is slightly different at the moment but it likley to end with the same big 4 on top. I would prefer to see any other club win, I wouldnt care who it was. Many people would see the German Bundesliga as inferior but honestly, its far more interesting. Bayern Munich are the top club but they dont win every sesaon and their is a host of clubs who could win, Wolfsburg last season for example.
We may love winners but unless we have favourtism for a particular athlete, team we love a great competition even more.
Yeah, he probably should have said "The French public doesn't like people who win, unless they are French."
Ninety5rpm said:
TBH, this is the typical BS spewed to play the anti-French out to get me card. France is no different from the US or any other countries in the respect of disliking winners. Who are the most hated team in Baseball?, judging from my experiences in the US, it is the NY Yankees. Why? Becasue they were/are the biggest, richest most successful franchise in Baseball.
Isnt a big part of the salary cap in US sports to try and prevent one franchsie from becoming too dominant. Yeah sure, the US like winners but only if they are representing the US against other nations, its a different case withing their own sports. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this but that was the impression I always got.
pmcg76 said:
I hate the Yankees because the playing field is not level. The can spend $250 while other teams spend $40 Million. There is no salary cap in baseball
Not all winners are disliked. Jordan, Montana, Woods until a few months ago were all seen positively.
What the French, and others, don't like is Douchebags
Ninety5rpm said:
Quite the sweeping generalization huh...
I wonder what his thoughts are - as a competition director who designs the route - on having the same winner for consecutive years. Something tells me he would be amenable to changing the route so that another competitor stands a chance...
(haven't read the article
)
Moondance said:
I think this is a fairly common sentiment amongst sports fans. If you are on top "too long" then folks start to want to see you knocked off. Personally, I don't mind dominance . . . especially when everyone is gunning for you. If I'm the man and I say I'm the man, then I should be prepared to prove it. The best always could.
So if someone like Lance can dominate multiple years DESPITE everyone gunning for him, well then bully on him. I feel the same way about Cav, Contador or any other professional athlete or team dominating their sport. To be the best, you have to beat the best.
Race Radio said:
Don't take this so personally. I come from the biggest loser nation in sports.... We've learned to embrace it.
Also, it was tongue in cheek, lighten up.
Publicus said:
I totally agree with what you say, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. If Contador goes on to win the Tour every year with reasonable comfort until he's into his mid-30s I will obviously respect the hell out of him, but I'll hate his freaking guts. If Robert Gesink won the Tour every year comfortably until he was in his mid-30s I would grovel at his throne and wash his feet for free. That's just how it works.
Moondance said:
That just seems irrational to me. And I think it is fair to say that's how it works for you. For me, I'd be hyped for Gesink. Because he was able to up his game to defeat all challengers. How folks can't respect that--unless it's a fellow countrymen--is beyond my comprehension. But then it's not for me to understand or accept. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
Moondance said:
I would be hyped for Gesink. I have met him and his parents and he seems like a good guy. It would be hard to root against him even if he starts dominating
I think there are winners with class that people can embrace.
Who?Moose McKnuckles said:
P.S.
Got this message when I tried to post just the above: "The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters."
So, I added this P.S.!
I think this is all a play on words.
really, the quote should be "the french like to see new up and comers"
or better yet "all fans of any sport are interested in seeing some underdog win"
there's nothing wrong with wanting to see a new winner each year, but personally i think it is completely irrational to, say, 'hate' a winner purely becoz they win... I guess the reason people don't like some winners is becoz of the way they win, whether it's arrogance or something like that. Personally, i like arrogant sports stars...
(Lleyton Hewitt - tennis - comes to mind from Oz. I don't know anyone other than myself that actually likes him. Youngest ever world number one and frimly agreed upon to be an arrogant little shit for most of his winning days - but i thought he was great!!)
Did anyone hate Merckx?
really, the quote should be "the french like to see new up and comers"
or better yet "all fans of any sport are interested in seeing some underdog win"
there's nothing wrong with wanting to see a new winner each year, but personally i think it is completely irrational to, say, 'hate' a winner purely becoz they win... I guess the reason people don't like some winners is becoz of the way they win, whether it's arrogance or something like that. Personally, i like arrogant sports stars...
(Lleyton Hewitt - tennis - comes to mind from Oz. I don't know anyone other than myself that actually likes him. Youngest ever world number one and frimly agreed upon to be an arrogant little shit for most of his winning days - but i thought he was great!!)
Did anyone hate Merckx?
Mountain Goat said:
I dont think its a case of hating somebody for winning, its more a case of getting bored or tired of the same person/team winning.
I was tired of Indurain winning after he won three Tours but I still respected his perfromances, like the stage to Liege in 95 I think. I just wanted to see him beaten, I never hated him.
Was the same with Lance, after 02 I was tired of him winning but then 03 was a great race but he still won. It was what happened in 04 that changed my mentality from just wanting to see him beaten to actually disliking him. If forced me to look at a lot of previous incidents in a different light and so much attention was focused on him in the last few years of his winning streak, I just wanted rid of him.
Another example is Manchester United, I hate them so much now. I am definitely an ABU but I actually supported them when I was young and they were not winning much. I then got tired of them winning and couldnt see the point of following some team from a city in England I had never even been to.
In Ireland its crazy how many people follow Man Utd and I mean really worship them, text alerts when they score, the whole jazz. I was at a wedding once where the 'groom figuerine' on the wedding cake was in a United shirt. I just think, christ, most of thes guys have no connection to Manchester or have never been to England but they worship this team. To me its crazy and is a big part of the reason I love to see them lose. They play great football though and I respect that.
In summary, the hate only comes when some other factor other than just winning comes into play.
Moondance said:
frenchman won the french national road championship last year... or was that 2008, i would have to check
dimspace said:frenchman won the french national road championship last year... or was that 2008, i would have to check
Good one...
Most people simply get tired with one person totally dominating a sport, but only seem to dislike them when they show traits that are unsportsmanlike.
As said earlier, guys like Jordan, Montana, Indurain, Federer and Kelly Slater are/were very popular in their chosen sports because they are champions who are also very likeable people, sportsmanlike, transparent and accessible to fans and media alike. This didn't/doesn't stop people from wanting to them pushed for their wins or get beaten.
When unpopular champions turn up in sports they usually confuse people who are bored with their dominance as genuinely disliking them and go into a siege mentality. A certain US rider from Texas is hardly the first or last athlete to fall into this trap. In the end the truth is, everyone likes a humble champion.
As said earlier, guys like Jordan, Montana, Indurain, Federer and Kelly Slater are/were very popular in their chosen sports because they are champions who are also very likeable people, sportsmanlike, transparent and accessible to fans and media alike. This didn't/doesn't stop people from wanting to them pushed for their wins or get beaten.
When unpopular champions turn up in sports they usually confuse people who are bored with their dominance as genuinely disliking them and go into a siege mentality. A certain US rider from Texas is hardly the first or last athlete to fall into this trap. In the end the truth is, everyone likes a humble champion.
42x16ss said:
I would not dispute the other names on your list but I take it you never read much about Jordan's personality - most would say he was every bit as aggressive in his approach to winning championships as LA.
As an aside - I was and still am a Jordan fan. I enjoy watching the best work, for me it is art in motion.
Mountain Goat said:
Well one fan at the 1975 TDF was unhappy enough with him that they punched him in the kidney as he was climbing the Puy de Dome. It almost made him have to leave the race, and snapped his winning streak at 5, he never won another TDF.
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