The Froome Files, test data only thread

[thehog]

Re: Re:

He knows things that you don't.

All I might know (that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread, at least that I've seen) is that not only are changes in heart rate delayed with respect to changes in power, but the kinetics have been fairly well-described. I am therefore surprised that no one seems to have taken the knowledge into account.

I tried to bring people's attention to it:
viewtopic.php?p=1954786#p1954786

Ta. Since I only pop in here once in a blue moon, I'd missed where you had pointed that out.

You mean you only pop in here when this thread comes to life again, which means you're keeping a good eye on it

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

He knows things that you don't.

All I might know (that hasn't already been mentioned in this thread, at least that I've seen) is that not only are changes in heart rate delayed with respect to changes in power, but the kinetics have been fairly well-described. I am therefore surprised that no one seems to have taken the knowledge into account.

I tried to bring people's attention to it:
viewtopic.php?p=1954786#p1954786

Ta. Since I only pop in here once in a blue moon, I'd missed where you had pointed that out.

You mean you only pop in here when this thread comes to life again, which means you're keeping a good eye on it

not as good as yours Hoggy

 

[thehog]

Most true, I was the one who had to pull apart the fax because our celebrity scientist was too lazy to verify himself

 

[Gregga]

WRT to heart rate, bottom bracket motor etc, there's another leaked video from Vuelta 2014, this one with a Stages sensor, with the same kind of wattages and low increase in heart rates. Just my 2 cents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLFdRGWhh0

 

[thehog]

I did do the search and I can't find any photo that looks like he had any kind of fat to loose.

2007

It's from 2007 Tour of Japan and as any girl on Instagram will tell you that a camera angle shooting upwards on your face adds 5kgs!

Same race, Froome winning one of the stages, looks in very good shape as he detailed in his book that he was doing a lot training at the time;

 

[thehog]

There's also a video of him winning the stage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IboGUAJ7TaM

Doesn't look fat in the slightest.

 

[thehog]

Re:

WRT to heart rate, bottom bracket motor etc, there's another leaked video from Vuelta 2014, this one with a Stages sensor, with the same kind of wattages and low increase in heart rates. Just my 2 cents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLFdRGWhh0

Stages measures "deflection" in the crank arm which is why they don't work with carbon cranks. If there was a motor there wouldn't be downward deflection from a riders pedal force but it could be argued that here would still be deflection from the motor driving the crank arm.

It would need to be tested. I'm not convinced that it would produce a zero reading on power.

Stages uses a strain gauge to measure deflection in a material (in this case, the crank arm) under a force load and converts that number to power—however, it measures left-side force only and multiplies that figure by two to get total power.

 

[veganrob]

There's also a video of him winning the stage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IboGUAJ7TaM

Doesn't look fat in the slightest.

If he was wearing a skinsuit, similar to the Sky kit, he would look even thinner.

 

[red_flanders]

It's from 2007 Tour of Japan and as any girl on Instagram will tell you that a camera angle shooting upwards on your face adds 5kgs!

Same race, Froome winning one of the stages, looks in very good shape as he detailed in his book that he was doing a lot training at the time;

You're right, so many factors with the camera. The image at right is shot from a lower angle, much longer focal length, higher aperture setting, and the white jersey is going to make a big difference.

 

[TubularBills]

Empirical and relational data shows overwhelming indication of doping:

Dope =

Loser.

Supporting evidence... ?

Doesn't matter.

Guilt by association and history...

Competitive in Cycling; is enough.

So sad,

Trumped.

 

[thehog]

It's from 2007 Tour of Japan and as any girl on Instagram will tell you that a camera angle shooting upwards on your face adds 5kgs!

Same race, Froome winning one of the stages, looks in very good shape as he detailed in his book that he was doing a lot training at the time;

You're right, so many factors with the camera. The image at right is shot from a lower angle, much longer focal length, higher aperture setting, and the white jersey is going to make a big difference.

He looks very normal and skinny when standing next to other riders at the same race;

 

[sniper]

Johnny Lee Augustyn - Swart's protegee from 2010(11?) to 2014, and Froome's principal training buddy from 2006-2008, quoted in Vavafroome (2013) in reference to the 2006-2008 period:

"Chris has always been very into nutrition", says Johnny Lee Augustyn. "He showed me a lot of new things, all the natural products, organic food".

 

[sniper]

2007:

 

[sniper]

Jeroen, who works for an antidoping agency, as an exercise physiologist, and sports scientist, and whose name was all over the Esquire article, should have a particular interest in clarifying the issues with the fax.

He could just ask his friend Michelle Froome Cound (they met in 2011 and stayed in touch ever since) or any of the testers involved in 2007 (with whom he claims to be in contact too) to show him the original of the fax.

I wonder why he doesn't.

 

[Tienus]

Re:

WRT to heart rate, bottom bracket motor etc, there's another leaked video from Vuelta 2014, this one with a Stages sensor, with the same kind of wattages and low increase in heart rates. Just my 2 cents.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdLFdRGWhh0

Thanks for pointing that out.
I have analysed both videos a while ago. At the time I could not work out why there was such a difference in power when Froome attacked. A stages vs a SRM would be a good explanation.

 

[Tienus]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jul/21/team-sky-data-chris-froome-tour-de-france

Maximum heart rate: 174

This is a very high heart rate for Chris suggesting he has reached the second week of the Tour/bottom of the climb in a relatively fresh state. By comparison Chris’s maximum heart rate in the second week of the Tour in 2013 was 168. In the Vuelta 2014, it was 171.

So according to sky his max HR at Ventoux was 168. I guess he was saving some energy in case it would come down to a sprint.

 

[Mr.38%]

Re: Re:

P.S. That heart rate response looks to me like that of someone who is at their aerobic limit.

I never liked HR monitors when I used them, I started training with SRM in 2004 and dropped the dreaded chestbelt in 2005 on the road. For whatever reason, I used my Polar HR in cyclocross races during the winter for some more years.

* I was able to spot my power bursts during a race when launching or following an attack every time, settling to what appeared as a steady state later, even with all the accelerations involved. Burn a match, watch the hump later on the screen, invariably.

* Never ever only once did the Polar fail in CX or MTB races whicle it admittedly did on longer downhills on the road frequently.

 

[thehog]

Why we love Greg Henderson, he just lost the fat

 

[sniper]

Incredible stuff from Jeroen Swart on twitter today, as he's applauding a piece by Cherise Stander that "questions why the cycling community embraces dopers so easily".
https://twitter.com/JeroenSwart/status/816566766818181120
(link to that piece from Stander: http://www.bicycling.co.za/blogs/column-say-no-doping/ )

Meanwhile Jeroen himself has worked together with Bobby Julich.
And never mind that Jeroen has spend a year now defending Chris Froome from accusations, and is friends with Michelle Cound-Froome, both of whom have literally embraced Vinokourov a.o.

Jeroen, your 'stance' on doping is absolutely all over the place now.
Care to expand?

 

[rick james]

Re:

Incredible stuff from Jeroen Swart on twitter today, as he's applauding a piece by Cherise Stander that "questions why the cycling community embraces dopers so easily".
https://twitter.com/JeroenSwart/status/816566766818181120
(link to that piece from Stander: http://www.bicycling.co.za/blogs/column-say-no-doping/ )

Meanwhile Jeroen himself has worked together with Bobby Julich.
And never mind that Jeroen has spend a year now defending Chris Froome from accusations, and is friends with Michelle Cound-Froome, both of whom have literally embraced Vinokourov a.o.

Jeroen, your 'stance' on doping is absolutely all over the place now.
Care to expand?

Really what? I mean what the f*ck, is this the best this place has now, because people spoke to a guy once or twice the must me burned at the stake?

really this place could do much better than that.

frankly its embarrassing.

 

[sniper]

Did you read Cherise's piece?
She talks about embracing former dopers.
What is she talking about? This is what she's talking about:

 

[sniper]

And this is what she's talking about:

Jeroen Swart
‏@JeroenSwart

Fantastic! RT @Pro_Cycling: BMC Racing Team hires Bobby Julich as training, equipment and performance consultant

Yes, that was after Julich's doping confession (or non-confession).

 

[rick james]

Re:

Did you read Cherise's piece?
She talks about embracing former dopers.
What is she talking about? This is what she's talking about:

so bloody what?...clutching at straws.

As I said this place is embarrassing at times

 

[Colonel]

Re:

Incredible stuff from Jeroen Swart on twitter today, as he's applauding a piece by Cherise Stander that "questions why the cycling community embraces dopers so easily".
https://twitter.com/JeroenSwart/status/816566766818181120
(link to that piece from Stander: http://www.bicycling.co.za/blogs/column-say-no-doping/ )

Meanwhile Jeroen himself has worked together with Bobby Julich.
And never mind that Jeroen has spend a year now defending Chris Froome from accusations, and is friends with Michelle Cound-Froome, both of whom have literally embraced Vinokourov a.o.

Jeroen, your 'stance' on doping is absolutely all over the place now.
Care to expand?

You are so so full of ***. the fabrications you make in this post alone about Swart are so far removed its scary. He never "worked" together. He provided info on JLA operation going forward as ANY Medical Doctor/Surgeon would. There is a big difference.

Your witch hunt is disturbingly sick and shows how little you actually know about the environment you making stuff up in.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Incredible stuff from Jeroen Swart on twitter today, as he's applauding a piece by Cherise Stander that "questions why the cycling community embraces dopers so easily".
https://twitter.com/JeroenSwart/status/816566766818181120
(link to that piece from Stander: http://www.bicycling.co.za/blogs/column-say-no-doping/ )

Meanwhile Jeroen himself has worked together with Bobby Julich.
And never mind that Jeroen has spend a year now defending Chris Froome from accusations, and is friends with Michelle Cound-Froome, both of whom have literally embraced Vinokourov a.o.

Jeroen, your 'stance' on doping is absolutely all over the place now.
Care to expand?

You are so so full of ***. the fabrications you make in this post alone about Swart are so far removed its scary. He never "worked" together. He provided info on JLA operation going forward as ANY Medical Doctor/Surgeon would. There is a big difference.

Your witch hunt is disturbingly sick and shows how little you actually know about the environment you making stuff up in.

So they did indeed work together albeit briefly.
Thanks for confirming.

And thanks for reminding us that Jeroen's pupil, Johhny Lee Augustyn, embraced Bobby Julich, too.

Look, I don't have a problem with all the embracing.
Cherise Stander has. And Jeroen applauded that, very loudly.

So you and Rick James may wanna take it up with Cherise and Jeroen instead of with me.