The gift of giving - is it time the UCI to ban gifts?

[Samu Cuenca]

And then Landa was just so nice he just gifted the Giro as well!

There was a trio of Santa Clauses in that race.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

You believe that yourself? Wout would just have ridden away on the Kemmelberg if Laporte had been on another team...

No doubt about that.

Nevertheless, it remains impossible to judge.

Difficult thing is, where do you draw the line?

„Gifting“ when crossing the finish line arm in arm seems easy to rate/judge. If they would prohibit only that, OK.

In races, gifts happen, intentionally and non-intentionally. All the time.

I would still be cautious.

Obviously, Wout and Laporte raced to win in Wevelgem. Wout probably was captain, or leader. They get paid by the same sponsor. Wout will need a loyal Laporte to win RVV. Just a few thoughts…

Of course, UCI rules „demand“ to race to win. Just as Fifa rules demand to go for scoring goals. Of course, these are the basic motivations to compete.

I don‘t think Wout violated these basics, last Sunday.

I don‘t think UCI would have been able to prevent what happened on the finish line in Wevelgem on Sunday. Imagine, Jumbo say: „We have RVV and Roubaix now, as next races. We don‘t want to risk to let Wout sprint vs Laporte in Wevelgem, on slippery roads, in the wet and cold, after 250 kilometers!“… Would UCI be able to force them to sprint, nevertheless?

I think the cycling fan feels better, if he sees Wout and Laporte crossing the line arm in arm, and would feel weirdly if these two would simulate/fake a sprint, in which one of the two intentionally sprints with a too low gear or so, just to lose the sprint.

 

[fmk_RoI]

„Possibly“, because we cannot know if Wout would have beaten Laporte in a final sprint.

What drugs are you on? And can I have your dealers email addy? I want me some of whatever they are!

 

[jmdirt]

An important rule in the world of horse racing is the non-triers rule, which requires a jockey to make the required effort in order to gain the best possible result. Cycling has no such comparable rule and throughout the history of the sport riders have 'gifted' wins to other riders.

Is it time for cycling to take a leaf out of horse racing's rule book? At the finish of every race, every rider must be seen to be making the required effort to achieve result instead of just sitting up and letting some else finish ahead of them?

No

 

[noob]

They should allow us double emojis in this forum!!!

Try to imagine the work @Sandisfan had to do if that was an option

 

[ice&fire]

Checking PCS home page this called my attention. It sure was a gift from Superman to the old venerable babyface.

Vuelta Bantrab 2023 Stage 1 results

Óscar Sevilla is the winner of Vuelta Bantrab 2023 Stage 1, before Miguel Ángel López and Róbigzon Leandro Oyola. Óscar Sevilla was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Branetax]

I've been following cycling for a while now, and this topic really got me thinking. While I appreciate the sportsmanship aspect of riders sometimes "gifting" wins, I can see how it might take away from the competitive edge of the sport.
Imagine the adrenaline rush of every rider pushing themselves to the limit, fighting for that finish line! It could make for some nail-biting moments and keep fans on the edge of their seats till the very end.
And when it comes to gifts, I've always found that customizable gifts make them extra special. Whether it's a customized jersey or a personalized water bottle, it shows that you've put thought into it.

 

[Peter von]

I've been following cycling for a while now, and this topic really got me thinking. While I appreciate the sportsmanship aspect of riders sometimes "gifting" wins, I can see how it might take away from the competitive edge of the sport.

yeah it's very much a "to each his own" kinda thing. I don't mind it, it's part of racing.

It is obviously very hard to judge if a win is a gift. Very easy for Wout and Laporte to fake a two way sprint win for the Frenchman. Sure Wout should be the favorite, but you can't prove beyond any shadow of doubt that Laporte just didn't time it better on the day. Personally I think if two team mates reach the finish line together, they've earned the right to either sprint it out between them or gift it or whatever, I'd much rather they did it in an obvious way than faking a sprint or a cramp or whatever.

And cycling is a team sport, a domestique can't ride to win the Tour de France and the current stage for himself, he rides for the team. But if all riders were obligated by rule to try to win every stage for themselves, then it'd be mayhem. So you'd need much more relaxed rules.

 

[Netserk]

Cycling is an individual sport, real races only have one winner (no, Lance did not win the 2009 Tour and I don't think he was the least bit happy that a teammate won). But it's a very social sport, and what can be more basically social than gifts?

Selling "gifts" should be allowed as well (but it should be regulated by riders' contracts).

 

[Anderis]

Trying to ban gifts would be a bit like trying to ban team-orders in F1 (wich was once unsuccessfully attempted to those who are not aware). It may sound like a right thing from a sporting perspective but it's impossible to police in the long run. It would only result in embarrassing situations every now and then when the gifts would occur anyway and observant fans would be well aware of them but the riders would pretend it was not a gift.

 

[Wyndbrook]

At least Vino would still be ok.

 

[RedheadDane]

Cycling is an individual sport, real races only have one winner (no, Lance did not win the 2009 Tour and I don't think he was the least bit happy that a teammate won).

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Armstrong won the 2009 Tour, nor that he was happy Contador won.

 

[Peter von]

I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Armstrong won the 2009 Tour, nor that he was happy Contador won.

no, but tbf I did overstate the teamyness of cycling a little bit. It's less of a team sport than Curling, but more than F1 or Horseracing, was my point, teams exists and they ride for a common goal usually, but my text simply said it's a team sport. I could have made that more clear.

Tbh I am unsure if anyone ever claimed Armstrong was ever happy with anything.

 

[RedheadDane]

no, but tbf I did overstate the teamyness of cycling a little bit. It's less of a team sport than Curling, but more than F1 or Horseracing, was my point, teams exists and they ride for a common goal usually, but my text simply said it's a team sport. I could have made that more clear.

Tbh I am unsure if anyone ever claimed Armstrong was ever happy with anything.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure there have been several cases where a rider might have preferred to win themselves, but were still quite happy for their winning teammates.

 

[Netserk]

A F1 driver can also be happy with a teammate winning a race. Doesn't change that a race only has one winner.

 

[RedheadDane]

A F1 driver can also be happy with a teammate winning a race. Doesn't change that a race only has one winner.

Yes, but you chose to mention the guy who was straight up unhappy about his teammate winning.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Perhaps Laporte will recrepcate and gift a spring race to Wout this year.
Looking at all the comments on this forum writing him off last week he may need it.

 

[Peter von]

I think we can all agree that a bike race only has 1 winner, but teams does in fact exist and can play a big part in determining who that 1 winner ultimately is.

It is less individual than Tennis and more than Rugby.

taking it back to the original question, if the entire 8-man team at the Tour is required to go for both the overall win and each individual stages as individuals and not a team,

 

[Netserk]

Individuals compete on teams and collaborate with their opponents. It's a social sport. It's not a team sport (but a sport with teams).

 

[Peter von]

Individuals compete on teams and collaborate with their opponents. It's a social sport. It's not a team sport (but a sport with teams).

yeah fair, I suppose you can see it that way.

 

[VO2 Max]

Theoretically I think you're meant to ride alone in championship events, worlds, Olympics, nationals that sort of thing. Doesn't happen.

But gifts and arrangements are a cool part of the sport and form a big part of its dynamic. If a lesser rider from a non GC-contending team is with a GC guy on a final climb then of course he should pull, and of course he should be allowed the stage as a reward; we can say the GC guy is 'not trying' by gifting the stage, but really he's maximising his chances for the overall by getting some help along the way. (And the next lesser rider to be in that position understands that this GC guy plays by the unwritten rules and will help as much as he can). There will always be a plausible 'big picture' reason as a defense to a non-trying charge, it's a function of the way road cycling works.

If we're talking about van Aert at GW there was plenty of logic at the core of the decision, a calculated gamble on how the rest of the spring might play out. For me, it was just uncomfortable the way he made such a show of it, it felt very patronising to a rider of Laporte's quality. There was no reason not to just take a comically long look over the wrong shoulder and see how it played out.