Canada races are fun but not that significant, please don't let UCI hipster points system's fool you into thinking they are worth close to as much as a monument
The riders were stronger in Montréal than at Strade Bianche (which he also won).
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Canada races are fun but not that significant, please don't let UCI hipster points system's fool you into thinking they are worth close to as much as a monument
WrongSo where does this edition rank?
I think it was far better than all the last lap editions. So that already puts it in the top-3 of the editions since the last time in Australia. I think last year was better. I should probably watch the Yorkshire edition again, as I don't recall much of what happened before Pedersen, Küng and Moscon went. Hmm, I do remember the troubles Gilbert had and that Evenepoel waited for him.
This is probably 8/10 then.
The latter is also overrated.The riders were stronger in Montréal than at Strade Bianche (which he also won).
What are you talking about?The riders were stronger in Montréal than at Strade Bianche (which he also won).
What are you talking about?
You have access to each rider power file in each races?
The post tour criteriums have incredibly strong riders. Doesn't mean they are more prestigious than Omlop het Nieuwsblad
Somebody has to decide how many points a race gives. It's not a measure that avoids judgement, it delegates judgement."Prestigious" is a weak, subjective term. UCI points is a more objective way of comparing races. You can also look at the strength of the startlist. There are statistics about that too, you know.
Somebody has to decide how many points a race gives. It's not a measure that avoids judgement, it delegates judgement.
I'm afraid there is nothing to recall.I remember that the part before the circuit was shortened with some climbs removed because of the weather (link), but it's from when they got to the circuit (which was when Gilbert had mechanical issues) and to the first successful attacks that I don't recall.
Did Küng attack before Moscon and Pedersen?I'm afraid there is nothing to recall.
Küng was the first to move with another rider (I don't remember whom, something tells me he was Anglo Saxon).
Over time, anything will prevail. Or it won't. Sounds like an article of faith.Over time, the points system will prevail.
UCI rewards distant races, but races don't get prestigious by being distant from the centre of cycling.
that someone was mein the 2026 UCI bidding guide it says "The UCI will guarantee top level live television production at its own costs via its production partner. [...] some obligations related to TV production will remain the responsibility and costs of the Organiser and will be listed in the Organisation Guide (incl. power for Host Broadcaster, scaffolding, etc.)", so it don't seem to be the locals to blame (although they probably can make recommendations of how to show the country).
Earlier in this thread, someone said it was a Dutch company doing it in Wollongong.
I'm afraid there is nothing to recall.
Küng was the first to move with another rider (I don't remember whom, something tells me he was Anglo Saxon).
If u are telling me UCI points is how we rank races, u are tell me that you would rather win Classique Paris-Chauny or Gooikse Pijl than a stage of the Tour de France or Giro d'Italia. Because they are worth more UCI points."Prestigious" is a weak, subjective term. UCI points is a more objective way of comparing races. You can also look at the strength of the startlist. There are statistics about that too, you know.
So where does this edition rank?
I think it was far better than all the last lap editions. So that already puts it in the top-3 of the editions since the last time in Australia. I think last year was better. I should probably watch the Yorkshire edition again, as I don't recall much of what happened before Pedersen, Küng and Moscon went. Hmm, I do remember the troubles Gilbert had and that Evenepoel waited for him.
This is probably 8/10 then.
1993 | Oslo | Norway | One of the better WC. Afwul weather all day. Lot of attacks. Very typical circuit, with 2 not even to dificult climb, became a very entertaining WC. |
1994 | Agrigento | Italy | a bit too long ago to remember all details, but mainly a climbers race |
1995 | Duitama | Colombia | Probably the hardest world cup in recent history. Race of pure depletion. With the GC riders deciding the race |
1996 | Lugano | Switzerland | Museeuw with an early move. The favorites never reached the front anymore. |
1997 | San Sebastián | Spain | Well, not so selective circuit, but still quite some good racing in the final, with a lot of tension in the final. |
1998 | Valkenburg | Netherlands | Definitely one of the better world championships. Afwul weather all day. Lot's of people trying during the whole day. Big favourites already leaving from quite far out. Dutch drama with Boogerd having a flat tire in the last lap. |
1999 | Verona | Italy | Not really a spectacular circuit, but still an entertaining race. Early crash of the favorite. None of the Italians wanted to be to late to attack, afraid they were not allowed to race behind a team member (early Tafi attack). The Dutch team that missed an important break and Boogerd himself had to respond very early. Several importants groups trying in the end. Surprise winner. |
2000 | Plouay | France | compared to the years before it was not as entertaining. Still a quit good early break with DiLuca and Poland working somehow to bring the peloton back. |
2001 | Lisbon | Portugal | quite a boring race on a very typical world cup circuit. Italians killing each other as most particular action in the race. |
2002 | Zolder | Belgium | not great at all |
2003 | Hamilton | Canada | Only wathced this one partly. Very typical worlds, that only opened in the end. |
2004 | Verona | Italy | Only see this one partly. As far as I remember a quite typical race, with action only late in the race by the favorites. A lot of Rabo in the finale and Freire surprisingly well uphill this race. |
2005 | Madrid | Spain | Another boring WC. It was waiting till very late in the race, before the Spanish team tried something and opened the finale. Last 60km not too bad. |
2006 | Salzburg | Austria | The Italians tried several times on the 2 small hills, to make it at least a little bit selective. But what I remember it was a boring race. |
2007 | Stuttgart | Germany | Quite some good racing. Various groups tried. Favorites wait for the last laps. Good, but also nothing special that made it a memorable edition. |
2008 | Varese | Italy | Somewhat comparable to this years race in the sense that the favorites never really entered in the race. Outsiders already made the move 60-70 before the finish and the favorites never saw the front of the race anymore. |
2009 | Mendrisio | Switzerland | Quite a good race. Some interesting groups that tried during the last laps. |
2010 | Geelong | Australia | As far as I remember the Belgiums made the race quite hard and Gilbert was really impacient and tried a few laps to early. Not a bad race at all. However, the sprint in the end was maybe a bit of a deception as the race deserved a more selective end. |
2011 | Copenhagen | Denmark | I wasted some hours of my live here watching this. |
2012 | Valkenburg | Netherlands | Promising early racing when they reached the first laps (Contador, Gesink, ect). But the last 2/3 laps were disappointing. Everyone waiting for Cauberg sprint. Can not be in the shadows of the 98 version. |
2013 | Florence | Italy | awful weather and some promising early action (mainly by the Italians). Splits in the peloton even before the live images. But the moment you were thinking that It could become a really epic version of the WC, the race calmed down and it was waiting for the final. Of course still some moments to remember, Nibili with too much help and Valverde/Rodriquez. |
2014 | Ponferrada | Spain | another very typical WC. Only actions in the last lap. A lot of climbing, but all not very selective (low grades). Therefore even the last laps weren't that great. |
2015 | Richmond | United States | I missed this one, so cannot judge |
2016 | Doha | Qatar | Not as bad as expected with the early action in the wind. But after that is was a borefest till the last lap. Weird tactics by the Belgiums in not trying anything from the moment the entered the local circuits. |
2017 | Bergen | Norway | Boring race, with only action late in the race. The lap was not that inspiring neither. |
2018 | Innsbruck | Austria | Boring because everyone was waiting for the steep wall in the end. |
2019 | Harrogate | Great Britain | together with Oslo, 93, Valkenburg 98 and Florance 2013, probably the WC with the most horrible weather. They shortened the race, but the weather was so bad that it became still an extremely hard race. Early splits in the peloton (Gilbert), a middle part with no images because of the helicopter and an early final with MVdP, who surprisingly bonked afterwards. Maybe the race was missing some big names in the last 60 kilometers, but still a very hard an entertaining race. With surprises. |
2020 | Imola | Italy | very typical and average WC, waiting for the last two laps for action. Nice last lap. Explode of the favorites only on the last climb. To simple to be really seen as a great race. |
2021 | Flanders | Belgium | Very good WC. 2 Surprise attacks from France from far out. Interesting groups early on the move, with great riders in it. Only critics could maybe be that Alaphillipe's final atack was almost imediately decisive. And the tension was gone. But the race had been that good before, that you can't complain about that. |
2022 | Wollongong | Australia | A very weird WC. Already starting with one of the top favorites being in jail, just hours before the start. An unexpected attack by the france, 200+ kilometers before the finish. An interesting race situations as a result. A bit of a boring middle part, but the final opened quite early. However, most top favorites never reached the front of the race anymore and the race was almost decided after this first move from far out. So, yes, I liked the chaos in the race. However, the way most teams made it 'easier' for Evenepoel to win, instead of making it him as dificult as possible was killing a bit of the excitement. |
How much of teams' allocation of resources is explained by points? Is the Tour de France only prioritised to the degree it offers more points?So a race gets prestigious because of where it is situated?
No, like in any other sport with rankings, the ranking system is the best objective measurement of importance. Everything else is just feelings and beliefs.
1993Oslo Norway One of the better WC. Afwul weather all day. Lot of attacks. Very typical circuit, with 2 not even to dificult climb, became a very entertaining WC. 1994Agrigento Italy a bit too long ago to remember all details, but mainly a climbers race 1995Duitama Colombia Probably the hardest world cup in recent history. Race of pure depletion. With the GC riders deciding the race 1996Lugano Switzerland Museeuw with an early move. The favorites never reached the front anymore. 1997San Sebastián Spain Well, not so selective circuit, but still quite some good racing in the final, with a lot of tension in the final. 1998Valkenburg Netherlands Definitely one of the better world championships. Afwul weather all day. Lot's of people trying during the whole day. Big favourites already leaving from quite far out. Dutch drama with Boogerd having a flat tire in the last lap. 1999Verona Italy Not really a spectacular circuit, but still an entertaining race. Early crash of the favorite. None of the Italians wanted to be to late to attack, afraid they were not allowed to race behind a team member (early Tafi attack). The Dutch team that missed an important break and Boogerd himself had to respond very early. Several importants groups trying in the end. Surprise winner. 2000Plouay France compared to the years before it was not as entertaining. Still a quit good early break with DiLuca and Poland working somehow to bring the peloton back. 2001Lisbon Portugal quite a boring race on a very typical world cup circuit. Italians killing each other as most particular action in the race. 2002Zolder Belgium not great at all 2003Hamilton Canada Only wathced this one partly. Very typical worlds, that only opened in the end. 2004Verona Italy Only see this one partly. As far as I remember a quite typical race, with action only late in the race by the favorites. A lot of Rabo in the finale and Freire surprisingly well uphill this race. 2005Madrid Spain Another boring WC. It was waiting till very late in the race, before the Spanish team tried something and opened the finale. Last 60km not too bad. 2006Salzburg Austria The Italians tried several times on the 2 small hills, to make it at least a little bit selective. But what I remember it was a boring race. 2007Stuttgart Germany Quite some good racing. Various groups tried. Favorites wait for the last laps. Good, but also nothing special that made it a memorable edition. 2008Varese Italy Somewhat comparable to this years race in the sense that the favorites never really entered in the race. Outsiders already made the move 60-70 before the finish and the favorites never saw the front of the race anymore. 2009Mendrisio Switzerland Quite a good race. Some interesting groups that tried during the last laps. 2010Geelong Australia As far as I remember the Belgiums made the race quite hard and Gilbert was really impacient and tried a few laps to early. Not a bad race at all. However, the sprint in the end was maybe a bit of a deception as the race deserved a more selective end. 2011Copenhagen Denmark I wasted some hours of my live here watching this. 2012Valkenburg Netherlands Promising early racing when they reached the first laps (Contador, Gesink, ect). But the last 2/3 laps were disappointing. Everyone waiting for Cauberg sprint. Can not be in the shadows of the 98 version. 2013Florence Italy awful weather and some promising early action (mainly by the Italians). Splits in the peloton even before the live images. But the moment you were thinking that It could become a really epic version of the WC, the race calmed down and it was waiting for the final. Of course still some moments to remember, Nibili with too much help and Valverde/Rodriquez. 2014Ponferrada Spain another very typical WC. Only actions in the last lap. A lot of climbing, but all not very selective (low grades). Therefore even the last laps weren't that great. 2015Richmond United States I missed this one, so cannot judge 2016Doha Qatar Not as bad as expected with the early action in the wind. But after that is was a borefest till the last lap. Weird tactics by the Belgiums in not trying anything from the moment the entered the local circuits. 2017Bergen Norway Boring race, with only action late in the race. The lap was not that inspiring neither. 2018Innsbruck Austria Boring because everyone was waiting for the steep wall in the end. 2019Harrogate Great Britain together with Oslo, 93, Valkenburg 98 and Florance 2013, probably the WC with the most horrible weather. They shortened the race, but the weather was so bad that it became still an extremely hard race. Early splits in the peloton (Gilbert), a middle part with no images because of the helicopter and an early final with MVdP, who surprisingly bonked afterwards. Maybe the race was missing some big names in the last 60 kilometers, but still a very hard an entertaining race. With surprises. 2020Imola Italy very typical and average WC, waiting for the last two laps for action. Nice last lap. Explode of the favorites only on the last climb. To simple to be really seen as a great race. 2021Flanders Belgium Very good WC. 2 Surprise attacks from France from far out. Interesting groups early on the move, with great riders in it. Only critics could maybe be that Alaphillipe's final atack was almost imediately decisive. And the tension was gone. But the race had been that good before, that you can't complain about that. 2022Wollongong Australia A very weird WC. Already starting with one of the top favorites being in jail, just hours before the start. An unexpected attack by the france, 200+ kilometers before the finish. An interesting race situations as a result. A bit of a boring middle part, but the final opened quite early. However, most top favorites never reached the front of the race anymore and the race was almost decided after this first move from far out. So, yes, I liked the chaos in the race. However, the way most teams made it 'easier' for Evenepoel to win, instead of making it him as dificult as possible was killing a bit of the excitement.
Thank you very much! Excellent summary. I have only seen the WC live from 2005 on.
1993Oslo Norway One of the better WC. Afwul weather all day. Lot of attacks. Very typical circuit, with 2 not even to dificult climb, became a very entertaining WC. 1994Agrigento Italy a bit too long ago to remember all details, but mainly a climbers race 1995Duitama Colombia Probably the hardest world cup in recent history. Race of pure depletion. With the GC riders deciding the race 1996Lugano Switzerland Museeuw with an early move. The favorites never reached the front anymore. 1997San Sebastián Spain Well, not so selective circuit, but still quite some good racing in the final, with a lot of tension in the final. 1998Valkenburg Netherlands Definitely one of the better world championships. Afwul weather all day. Lot's of people trying during the whole day. Big favourites already leaving from quite far out. Dutch drama with Boogerd having a flat tire in the last lap. 1999Verona Italy Not really a spectacular circuit, but still an entertaining race. Early crash of the favorite. None of the Italians wanted to be to late to attack, afraid they were not allowed to race behind a team member (early Tafi attack). The Dutch team that missed an important break and Boogerd himself had to respond very early. Several importants groups trying in the end. Surprise winner. 2000Plouay France compared to the years before it was not as entertaining. Still a quit good early break with DiLuca and Poland working somehow to bring the peloton back. 2001Lisbon Portugal quite a boring race on a very typical world cup circuit. Italians killing each other as most particular action in the race. 2002Zolder Belgium not great at all 2003Hamilton Canada Only wathced this one partly. Very typical worlds, that only opened in the end. 2004Verona Italy Only see this one partly. As far as I remember a quite typical race, with action only late in the race by the favorites. A lot of Rabo in the finale and Freire surprisingly well uphill this race. 2005Madrid Spain Another boring WC. It was waiting till very late in the race, before the Spanish team tried something and opened the finale. Last 60km not too bad. 2006Salzburg Austria The Italians tried several times on the 2 small hills, to make it at least a little bit selective. But what I remember it was a boring race. 2007Stuttgart Germany Quite some good racing. Various groups tried. Favorites wait for the last laps. Good, but also nothing special that made it a memorable edition. 2008Varese Italy Somewhat comparable to this years race in the sense that the favorites never really entered in the race. Outsiders already made the move 60-70 before the finish and the favorites never saw the front of the race anymore. 2009Mendrisio Switzerland Quite a good race. Some interesting groups that tried during the last laps. 2010Geelong Australia As far as I remember the Belgiums made the race quite hard and Gilbert was really impacient and tried a few laps to early. Not a bad race at all. However, the sprint in the end was maybe a bit of a deception as the race deserved a more selective end. 2011Copenhagen Denmark I wasted some hours of my live here watching this. 2012Valkenburg Netherlands Promising early racing when they reached the first laps (Contador, Gesink, ect). But the last 2/3 laps were disappointing. Everyone waiting for Cauberg sprint. Can not be in the shadows of the 98 version. 2013Florence Italy awful weather and some promising early action (mainly by the Italians). Splits in the peloton even before the live images. But the moment you were thinking that It could become a really epic version of the WC, the race calmed down and it was waiting for the final. Of course still some moments to remember, Nibili with too much help and Valverde/Rodriquez. 2014Ponferrada Spain another very typical WC. Only actions in the last lap. A lot of climbing, but all not very selective (low grades). Therefore even the last laps weren't that great. 2015Richmond United States I missed this one, so cannot judge 2016Doha Qatar Not as bad as expected with the early action in the wind. But after that is was a borefest till the last lap. Weird tactics by the Belgiums in not trying anything from the moment the entered the local circuits. 2017Bergen Norway Boring race, with only action late in the race. The lap was not that inspiring neither. 2018Innsbruck Austria Boring because everyone was waiting for the steep wall in the end. 2019Harrogate Great Britain together with Oslo, 93, Valkenburg 98 and Florance 2013, probably the WC with the most horrible weather. They shortened the race, but the weather was so bad that it became still an extremely hard race. Early splits in the peloton (Gilbert), a middle part with no images because of the helicopter and an early final with MVdP, who surprisingly bonked afterwards. Maybe the race was missing some big names in the last 60 kilometers, but still a very hard an entertaining race. With surprises. 2020Imola Italy very typical and average WC, waiting for the last two laps for action. Nice last lap. Explode of the favorites only on the last climb. To simple to be really seen as a great race. 2021Flanders Belgium Very good WC. 2 Surprise attacks from France from far out. Interesting groups early on the move, with great riders in it. Only critics could maybe be that Alaphillipe's final atack was almost imediately decisive. And the tension was gone. But the race had been that good before, that you can't complain about that. 2022Wollongong Australia A very weird WC. Already starting with one of the top favorites being in jail, just hours before the start. An unexpected attack by the france, 200+ kilometers before the finish. An interesting race situations as a result. A bit of a boring middle part, but the final opened quite early. However, most top favorites never reached the front of the race anymore and the race was almost decided after this first move from far out. So, yes, I liked the chaos in the race. However, the way most teams made it 'easier' for Evenepoel to win, instead of making it him as dificult as possible was killing a bit of the excitement.
So a race gets prestigious because of where it is situated?
No, like in any other sport with rankings, the ranking system is the best objective measurement of importance. Everything else is just feelings and beliefs.
If u are telling me UCI points is how we rank races, u are tell me that you would rather win Classique Paris-Chauny or Gooikse Pijl than a stage of the Tour de France or Giro d'Italia. Because they are worth more UCI points.
Nibali has his voodoo, but Remco has strategy.Damn. Evenepoel not only stabbed his own tire, payed Wright to take out Roglic, forced WVA to be his Boonen, but also paid those teenagers to harass MVDP.
Over time, the points system will prevail.
The strongest riders don't need to, because their teams are in no danger of relegation and there is no meaningful reward at the top of the points table (which I am happy enough about)Well, maybe not this year, but if they keep the ranking system as it is, the strongest riders will participate in the races with the most UCI points at stake. And then your beloved "prestige" will follow.
to be fair, if i had to show up in the office one day a year and there were no computers there, i wouldn't know what to do either!!Many riders just seem to act like a deer in headlights when they don't have a team radio to tell them what to do and things go a bit different than the initial plan.