Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread

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Anderis

May 10, 2013
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Viviani is a good fit for a team like Ineos. They don't really have a place in their squad to give a sprinter a proper support so I guess they're happy to have a sprinter who is not upset about not riding GTs and not having a proper train and stuff but still delivering some results on those flat days which are plenty on the calendar and where the team otherwsie would have been pretty aimless.

Although he's actually declined quite a bit recently, so it's not as good of a deal as it has been in the past but it's still better than having no sprinter at all or having a sprinter who's in bad mood because of lack of opportunities.
 
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xo 1

Jun 20, 2023
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Anderis said:
Viviani is a good fit for a team like Ineos. They don't really have a place in their squad to give a sprinter a proper support so I guess they're happy to have a sprinter who is not upset about not riding GTs and not having a proper train and stuff but still delivering some results on those flat days which are plenty on the calendar and where the team otherwsie would have been pretty aimless.

Although he's actually declined quite a bit recently, so it's not as good of a deal as it has been in the past but it's still better than having no sprinter at all or having a sprinter who's in bad mood because of lack of opportunities.
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He has 36 PCS points this year. His big (only) results this year are 3rd on stage 2 of Occitanie with very little competition, and 3rd on stage 3 of the Giro di Sicilia. He netted 295 PCS points last year, despite being the featured sprinter for INEOS. His 2021 with Cofidis was considered disappointing, but in fact, it seems unlikely he reaches 2021's total of 700 PCS points over the three years of his current contract.

I agree with the theory of starting a low-maintenance sprinter who can deliver results without dedicated support from time to time, as I know G and Luke Rowe have podded about how nice it is to have a sprinter to support on sprint stages, but Viviani looks cooked. So far as I am aware, he has been healthy. Maybe there is something left in the tank, but I don't see any hint of it.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Anderis said:
Viviani is a good fit for a team like Ineos. They don't really have a place in their squad to give a sprinter a proper support so I guess they're happy to have a sprinter who is not upset about not riding GTs and not having a proper train and stuff but still delivering some results on those flat days which are plenty on the calendar and where the team otherwsie would have been pretty aimless.

Although he's actually declined quite a bit recently, so it's not as good of a deal as it has been in the past but it's still better than having no sprinter at all or having a sprinter who's in bad mood because of lack of opportunities.
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I don't quite agree with that.

For a big budget team like Ineos, if they are going to have a sprinter, they should get one that can hit top 3 in bunch sprints with some consistency, and then dedicate 2-3 riders to be his train all year... someone with race smarts who doesn't need the full boat, like Girmay, Pedersen, Kooij or De Lie.

Problem is of course, that signing those kind of riders for a secondary position is hard, especially when they are told they won't get to ride most Grand Tours, so none of those would go to Ineos, they are just used as a reference on rider type.

But having someone like Viviani there, with no train to speak of, is pretty much a waste of budget IMO.
 
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Jumbo Visma Fan :)

Jumbo Visma Fan :)

Oct 13, 2021
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Boehmand said:
I don't quite agree with that.

For a big budget team like Ineos, if they are going to have a sprinter, they should get one that can hit top 3 in bunch sprints with some consistency, and then dedicate 2-3 riders to be his train all year... someone with race smarts who doesn't need the full boat, like Girmay, Pedersen, Kooij or De Lie.

Problem is of course, that signing those kind of riders for a secondary position is hard, especially when they are told they won't get to ride most Grand Tours, so none of those would go to Ineos, they are just used as a reference on rider type.

But having someone like Viviani there, with no train to speak of, is pretty much a waste of budget IMO.
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Viviani is a waste of space/budget, and I agree. However, he is a favorite of Brailsford, so he’ll pretty much be welcome there for how long he wants, which is sometimes what is comes down to in sports.
 
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Anderis

May 10, 2013
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Boehmand said:
But having someone like Viviani there, with no train to speak of, is pretty much a waste of budget IMO.
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It all depends on who they could have instead.
Boehmand said:
For a big budget team like Ineos, if they are going to have a sprinter, they should get one that can hit top 3 in bunch sprints with some consistency, and then dedicate 2-3 riders to be his train all year... someone with race smarts who doesn't need the full boat, like Girmay, Pedersen, Kooij or De Lie.

Problem is of course, that signing those kind of riders for a secondary position is hard, especially when they are told they won't get to ride most Grand Tours, so none of those would go to Ineos, they are just used as a reference on rider type.
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You're setting unrealistic guidelines IMO. Ineos have way too much climbing talent to select a proper sprinter to a GT. You even acknowledged yourself that the riders you mention wouldn't be likely to sign for a secondary position. Why don't you give an example of riders who would, then? Perhaps because it's extremely difficult to find riders who match your criteria. And that's why Ineos isn't signing anyone like that IMO. Viviani was probably the closest you can get. Not so much in his 2023 form, admittedly, but he was a very sensible signing at the time based on the past performances IMO. It's not easy to sign good riders with few ambitions and an ambitious sprinter is not something that could have mixed well with Ineos' roster.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Anderis said:
It all depends on who they could have instead.

You're setting unrealistic guidelines IMO. Ineos have way too much climbing talent to select a proper sprinter to a GT. You even acknowledged yourself that the riders you mention wouldn't be likely to sign for a secondary position. Why don't you give an example of riders who would, then? Perhaps because it's extremely difficult to find riders who match your criteria. And that's why Ineos isn't signing anyone like that IMO. Viviani was probably the closest you can get. Not so much in his 2023 form, admittedly, but he was a very sensible signing at the time based on the past performances IMO. It's not easy to sign good riders with few ambitions and an ambitious sprinter is not something that could have mixed well with Ineos' roster.
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No talented sprinter will sign with Ineos, as long as they can't supply a decent train and a decent race programme.

But it is far from impossible to combine the two... both Jumbo, Bahrain and UAE have fairly good sprinters, with fairly competent lead out riders, and they even get to ride some of the GT's.

The problem on Ineos IMO is they have far too many riders that see themselves as GC candidates, so they are almost forced to enter "GC focused" teams in all 3 Grand Tours.
 
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Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

Apr 10, 2019
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Boehmand said:
No talented sprinter will sign with Ineos, as long as they can't supply a decent train and a decent race programme.

But it is far from impossible to combine the two... both Jumbo, Bahrain and UAE have fairly good sprinters, with fairly competent lead out riders, and they even get to ride some of the GT's.

The problem on Ineos IMO is they have far too many riders that see themselves as GC candidates, so they are almost forced to enter "GC focused" teams in all 3 Grand Tours.
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Before he went to Quickstep Viviani was actually a really solid sprinter there. Got podiums/stage wins in WT stage races and was willing to work for the team captain ( I remember him being a bottle carrier and working for the team captain before the final climb on the first week mountain stages of the 2015 Giro, while he was wearing the points jersey).
 
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Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

Apr 10, 2019
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search said:
in a way, good, yeah, but just I checked the Tirreno coverage from a couple of years back when they did the same climb in the Giro this year, which had him flying up the climb. Now he looks more like Pieter Weening.
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At the same time he was super strong and essential in 2 of Pogacar's most impressive performances in 2021. That Tirreno-Adriatico stage that Van der Poel won and the Le Grand-Bonard stage. Also set a tempo that cracked Roglic in LBL that year. When it's a race/stage that is mainly about endurance his skillset makes him the perfect superdomestique for Pogacar.
 
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QueenStagiaire

QueenStagiaire

Jun 30, 2022
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Mayomaniac said:
At the same time he was super strong and essential in 2 of Pogacar's most impressive performances in 2021. That Tirreno-Adriatico stage that Van der Poel won and the Le Grand-Bonard stage. Also set a tempo that cracked Roglic in LBL that year. When it's a race/stage that is mainly about endurance his skillset makes him the perfect superdomestique for Pogacar.
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So, you‘re saying he‘d be a good gravel racer?
 
postmanhat

postmanhat

Oct 21, 2012
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Jumbo Visma Fan :) said:
Viviani is a waste of space/budget, and I agree. However, he is a favorite of Brailsford, so he’ll pretty much be welcome there for how long he wants, which is sometimes what is comes down to in sports.
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He was such a strange signing. A decent Pro level sprinter in the French or Belgian Cup, hardly any of which of Ineos rode. The only vague justification for it seemed to be giving their classics squad something to do after April, as there wasn't much else in their calendar. Ben Turner spent a lot of last season as his leadout man, resulting in a few podiums in .1 stage races.
 
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Boehmand

Boehmand

Mar 5, 2023
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Mayomaniac said:
Before he went to Quickstep Viviani was actually a really solid sprinter there. Got podiums/stage wins in WT stage races and was willing to work for the team captain ( I remember him being a bottle carrier and working for the team captain before the final climb on the first week mountain stages of the 2015 Giro, while he was wearing the points jersey).
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I'm not hating on Viviani, at one point he was the best sprinters in the peloton, but he isn't anymore and doesn't make sense on a big budget team, with next to no support.
 
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theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Boehmand said:
I'm not hating on Viviani, at one point he was the best sprinters in the peloton, but he isn't anymore and doesn't make sense on a big budget team, with next to no support.
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I think Viviani profited massively from Quickstep's leadout train, like others have done before and after him. I'm not sure he ever was the best sprinter, but he was on the best team for a sprinter. He certainly isn't now.
 
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postmanhat

postmanhat

Oct 21, 2012
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theyoungest said:
I think Viviani profited massively from Quickstep's leadout train, like others have done before and after him. I'm not sure he ever was the best sprinter, but he was on the best team for a sprinter. He certainly isn't now.
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He did really well at Sky in his final year when they didn't really have a leadout train. Now they do as they've signed a lot of classics riders in the last 2 years, but haven't altered their calendar accordingly so they're not really doing much after spring. Viviani had a lot of support last year.

As titan said, Vernon would be ideal for them at the moment IF they can get him.
 
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