The greatest individual sporting lie?

[Big GMaC]

I have been following since the Giro, now I feel I have enough understanding to contribute in a positive way to the boards.

Initially I had been a Lance Armstrong fan, taken in by his superficially undeniably inspiring back story. However I picked up a bad back injury around March, which sidelined me from my sport, rowing, leaving me on a turbo for 5 months. At that point I became more interested in cycling, as I had previously only been a follower for those three weeks and July and Track Championships.

Reading many of the opinions here as well as the many recommended studies/interviews, notably those given by Michael Ashenden has left me in no doubt that in order to win his 7 Tours LA was on a truckload of dope. Like charged to the brim on dope, as were those on USPS and Disco.

So the crux of this first post is, what has been the greatest lie by an individual i.e. not including the systematic doping programs of GDR/USSR/USA/CHN; in sports?

Because really I struggle to see past Armstrong. His lie has such a wide audience through the LAF and its cancer 'awareness', something like Bonds' steroid abuse pale in comparison.

What are your thoughts?

 

[forumlurker]

probably not much dirtier or cleaner than any other podium contender (or gt finisher, even.) i don't think there's any clean sports. maybe darts? badminton? chess? it is sort of depressing to think about what athletes do to themselves to be competitive, but that seems to be the nature of the beast. i try not to dwell on it too much.

la, imo: dirty? yes. dirtier than the next guy? probably not. great 7x tour champion? yes. self-important douchebag? a bit, yes. does it matter to me? not really

 

[Anonymous]

Lance - known test results from 99, but damn difficult to pin much more on him since then despite overwhelming suspicion.. i really think there needs to be seperation from sport, and doping etc and what riders do outside of the sport as individuals be it charity work, philanthropy etc.

far bigger cheat for me, and worldwide in his prime far bigger known, Carl Lewis, multiple olympic champion, pretty all american image, but by his own admission a cheat.. Lewis even admits to failing drugs test in the olympic trials and it being covered up by the american olympic association...

by far one of the biggest frauds in sport for me..

 

[Hugh Januss]

probably not much dirtier or cleaner than any other podium contender (or gt finisher, even.) i don't think there's any clean sports. maybe darts? badminton? chess? it is sort of depressing to think about what athletes do to themselves to be competitive, but that seems to be the nature of the beast. i try not to dwell on it too much.

la, imo: dirty? yes. dirtier than the next guy? probably not. great 7x tour champion? yes. self-important douchebag? a bit, yes. does it matter to me? not really

It is not so much that he dopes as the evidence is as strong that most all of them are. It is more the public relations company he hires to spin his lies. The whole range of BS. Never tested positive, most tested athlete in history, french conspiracy and other haters of excellence out to get him, "what am I on? I'm on my bike 8 hrs a day", "believe in miracles" and on and on. A giant pile of stinking lies as he hides behind the "greatest comeback from near death in sports history". No not dirtier than the others, but much bigger liar? Yes I think so.

 

[ChrisE]

I think one of the biggest lies I have seen is David beating Muzzin in American Flyers. No way that guy can train a few weeks riding across the USA and whip that guy. That's BS about his brother dying, too. I've seen him in other movies.

I think that was the dawn of the EPO era.

 

[ChrisE]

I don't think he can bag Ray Dung Kong either.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think one of the biggest lies I have seen is David beating Muzzin in American Flyers. No way that guy can train a few weeks riding across the USA and whip that guy. That's BS about his brother dying, too. I've seen him in other movies.

I think that was the dawn of the EPO era.

Come on, this is serious stuff. Quit making jokes, we are trying to undermine a legend here.

 

[ChrisE]

Come on, this is serious stuff. Quit making jokes, we are trying to undermine a legend here.

I am serious! That was based on a true story, right? That Russian guy doesn't look like he could climb for shyt so that makes me question the story a little bit. He looked like a hairy Petacchi (that doesn't sound right lol).

Don't go to the line with a hairy Petacchi! Woo-hoo.

Now, I do call BS on Breaking Away. Italians don't enter races with frame pumps on their bikes.

 

[David Suro]

Though ChrisE makes many valid points, I have to say that George the Animal Steele beating Randy Macho Man Savage in Wrestlemania III was bigger lie. And, really, the Lovely Elizabeth wasn't so lovely. A misnomer.

 

[ChrisE]

..And, really, the Lovely Elizabeth wasn't so lovely. A misnomer.

She was lovely compared to the snaggle-toothed redneck female missing links that populated those shows. It's all relative.

 

[Oldman]

It is not so much that he dopes as the evidence is as strong that most all of them are. It is more the public relations company he hires to spin his lies. The whole range of BS. Never tested positive, most tested athlete in history, french conspiracy and other haters of excellence out to get him, "what am I on? I'm on my bike 8 hrs a day", "believe in miracles" and on and on. A giant pile of stinking lies as he hides behind the "greatest comeback from near death in sports history". No not dirtier than the others, but much bigger liar? Yes I think so.

Got to agree on the magnitude of the lie. Although I'm much more inclined to side with ChrisE with the new avatar. The other one is still giving me night sweats and the occasional shart.

 

[Anonymous]

Though ChrisE makes many valid points, I have to say that George the Animal Steele beating Randy Macho Man Savage in Wrestlemania III was bigger lie. And, really, the Lovely Elizabeth wasn't so lovely. A misnomer.

you dont think...?

 

[ChrisE]

Got to agree on the magnitude of the lie. Although I'm much more inclined to side with ChrisE with the new avatar. The other one is still giving me night sweats and the occasional shart.

What's a "shart"? I can guess but I want to be sure.....I think its a word I want to use as part of my everyday vocabulary.

BTW, that old avatar was my wife that left me for a woman. You think you have night sweats......

I was thinking about ditching the Megan Fox avatar and putting a picture of that blonde on nip/tuck, Kelly Carlson.

What do you think, Oldman? Don't want to short circuit your pacemaker.....

 

[Big GMaC]

probably not much dirtier or cleaner than any other podium contender (or gt finisher, even.)

I wasn't trying to contend that he was the dirtiest of all riders and therefore further beyond reproach, just that they do not manipulate, fabricate and facilitate lying on the same scale that he does, as Hugh has stated.

I think what really gets me is the way that Armstrong's lie conjures false visions of what professional bike riding and cancer survival are.

That other pros are sitting on patio's slinging back espressos all year (Cipo excepted), that by training he has found some secret new formula whereas his secret formula comes in a pannier from Michele.

Maybe my anger towards him is colored by the fact that when someone close to me had cancer his story was such a powerful one for me as it offers such a positive possible future.

Once you get past the fog of 'heroism' it all seems like a big **** you and thanks for the cash

 

[Hugh Januss]

you dont think...?

Which one is.................oh never mind.

 

[SpeedWay]

What are your thoughts?

Good to see another youngster having a zen moment. Since your thread is so original maybe you can enlighten us with more information about this Lance Armstrong guy. Penny for your thoughts.

 

[Anonymous]

What's a "shart"? I can guess but I want to be sure.....I think its a word I want to use as part of my everyday vocabulary.

Sh!t + Fart = Shart

You go to fart, and accidentally sh!t yourself

-----

To the thread,
About the lie - if (note the IF) LA is running a big lie it's no worse than all the other athletes running their lies. The only difference is LA's lie paid off, whereas, Vinos, Ullrichs, Bassos, Pitis etc, did not pay off...

yet, it astounds me that there is so much support for those 4 i mentioned. i don't care if people hate LA, but be consistent. if you hate him for doping, then you should be consistent and hate all dopers and not single out the guy that happened to win for doping. is it more respectful to lose for doping? seems that it is in this forum...

 

[Big GMaC]

Good to see another youngster having a zen moment. Since your thread is so original maybe you can enlighten us with more information about this Lance Armstrong guy. Penny for your thoughts.

Nice welcome douchebag, if you cared to read properly I was asking about other sportsmen who have exploited success based on lies to such an extent, not really Armstrong in particular, because he is already the most obvious exponent known to me. Aside from the comedic references the only new name that has been thrown out is Carl Lewis, so why don't you add something original about someone other than Armstrong rather than being a d*ck to a 'youngster'

 

[ChrisE]

Sh!t + Fart = Shart

You go to fart, and accidentally sh!t yourself

That's what I thought.

Funny story...for the past couple of years I've worked on a project in Algeria, which required several trips. A buddy of mine that I work with had to do the same thing.

The airport we fly into and out of in Algeria is a shythole, literally. The toilet is just a hole in the floor, overflowing. He was flying out to Paris, then catching a plane to Houston. He was in the bathroom ****ing and he did what you describe above. He had to shed his underwear, try to clean himself up, etc. No toilet paper....somehow they wipe their *** with water and their hand.

Anyway, he came out of the stall and everybody was looking at him, and he smelled like shyt. He flew to Paris and then to Houston. A very long flight.

I thought that was funny, and that is my shart story. YMMV.

 

[Anonymous]

That's what I thought.

Funny story...for the past couple of years I've worked on a project in Algeria, which required several trips. A buddy of mine that I work with had to do the same thing.

The airport we fly into and out of in Algeria is a shythole, literally. The toilet is just a hole in the floor, overflowing. He was flying out to Paris, then catching a plane to Houston. He was in the bathroom ****ing and he did what you describe above. He had to shed his underwear, try to clean himself up, etc. No toilet paper....somehow they wipe their *** with water and their hand.

Anyway, he came out of the stall and everybody was looking at him, and he smelled like shyt. He flew to Paris and then to Houston. A very long flight.

I thought that was funny, and that is my shart story. YMMV.

HAHAHA - that's extremely gross - thanks for sharing!!

 

[red_flanders]

I wasn't trying to contend that he was the dirtiest of all riders and therefore further beyond reproach, just that they do not manipulate, fabricate and facilitate lying on the same scale that he does, as Hugh has stated.

I think what really gets me is the way that Armstrong's lie conjures false visions of what professional bike riding and cancer survival are.

That other pros are sitting on patio's slinging back espressos all year (Cipo excepted), that by training he has found some secret new formula whereas his secret formula comes in a pannier from Michele.

Maybe my anger towards him is colored by the fact that when someone close to me had cancer his story was such a powerful one for me as it offers such a positive possible future.

Once you get past the fog of 'heroism' it all seems like a big **** you and thanks for the cash

I'm not going to argue with you, but you have to admit that Hamilton and Landis are serious contenders for this throne.

 

[BroDeal]

I'm not going to argue with you, but you have to admit that Hamilton and Landis are serious contenders for this throne.

Nope. Hamilton and FLandis are pikers compared to Armstrong. Neither of them made it big. They had a lot to lose. Landis more so than Hamilton because he never made big money and did not know if his hip would allow him race at the top again. He was protecting what might have been his only shot at a big payout.

Both Hamilton and Landis acted like people typically do in a bad divorce. You can take the two nicest people in the world, put them in a bitter divorce struggle, and they will quickly show how nasty people can be when their backs are against the wall. You really cannot read a lot into people's behavior when they think they are fighting for their lives. People's judgement gets clouded by the battle.

Armstrong is different because he does what he does by choice. He could have retired at any time and lived quietly in comfort. Instead he travels the world and lies to people with cancer to make more money. Apparently he does this for ego. He is very similar to Bernie Madoff. Madoff had no reason to commit fraud. He was a very wealthy man. His legitimate business was worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He did what he did because he enjoyed being a real mensch, a man of respect, in his social community.

Some people have no conscience. Armstrong's behavior should not be that surprising coming from someone who grew up looking at J.R. Ewing as a role model and an example of how to get what he wanted.

It would be hard to find a bigger lie than Armstrong in sports. What he has done is beyond the pale. It would take something like finding out that Michael Jordon was bribing referees and paying off other teams. Although the public might find that a larger fraud, it still probably would not be in Armstrong's league. You would need Jordon building his fortune on the backs of the weak and vulnerable to match Armstrong.

 

[forumlurker]

i dunno. what is he supposed to say? that he's dirty? that everyone is right and he's a drug cheat? he's building his brand and making the money while he can. if i had his ability and his dope, and someone drove a big truck of money up to my door, i'd probably say just and do the same thing.

i suppose it's a big lie to the people who follow road racing, but that's a fairly small population. consider the audience of the nfl, major leagues, olympics, etc and how dirty they are. does that make the lie bigger? pick a superstar in a popular sport and you probably have a greater individual sporting lie. if i were to pick one, i'd probably pick barry bonds.

er... does that make any sense? i'm sorta drunk. nevermind

 

[BroDeal]

if i had his ability and his dope, and someone drove a big truck of money up to my door, i'd probably say just and do the same thing.

After making tens of millions of dollars would you then go out and lie to people with a terminal disease to make more?

 

[Anonymous]

still say Carl Lewis myself...