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Re:
Wow.
I recently read that he was declared sane, which allows him to stand trial. That's awesome.
Apparently many people in the past who ruffled feathers were declared insane and sent to prison for a long time.
Nothing to see hear, folks. Let's just move on.
His trial will be a work of art.
rhubroma said:
Wow.
I recently read that he was declared sane, which allows him to stand trial. That's awesome.
Apparently many people in the past who ruffled feathers were declared insane and sent to prison for a long time.
Nothing to see hear, folks. Let's just move on.
His trial will be a work of art.
Re:
He'll just be written off as crazy by the majority I strongly suspect. Pranking or punking the structure is funny but futile. Unfortunately for him I suspect he'll be on the receiving end of some "performance art" in prison.
the delgados said:
He'll just be written off as crazy by the majority I strongly suspect. Pranking or punking the structure is funny but futile. Unfortunately for him I suspect he'll be on the receiving end of some "performance art" in prison.
WHEN DOES EQUALITY FLOURISH?
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/when-does-equality-flourish
...so it turns out that we're story telling hierarchical apes. Who knew?
http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/when-does-equality-flourish
...so it turns out that we're story telling hierarchical apes. Who knew?
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Starstruck said:
That's why I'd love to live in Iceland. I could be wrong, but that country seems to most resemble the notion you're describing.
re Pavlensky. Your prediction turns out to be correct (quelle surprise). Cops beat him to a pulp while in custody. Shattered kneecap and broken ribs.
I'm not really one for reality shows but I've been watching one called "alone".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4803766/
I started watching as it's filmed on Van. Isl, my home turf. Anyway, i recommend season 1 episode ten (episode one is pretty funny too, they're all all interesting actually).
Then watch something like this crosstalk and you'll notice quite a juxtaposition that illustrates my point rather well.
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5nY8vzE8BQ
i just happened to finish episode 10 tonight and immediately watched that crosstalk after. Goofy.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4803766/
I started watching as it's filmed on Van. Isl, my home turf. Anyway, i recommend season 1 episode ten (episode one is pretty funny too, they're all all interesting actually).
Then watch something like this crosstalk and you'll notice quite a juxtaposition that illustrates my point rather well.
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5nY8vzE8BQ
i just happened to finish episode 10 tonight and immediately watched that crosstalk after. Goofy.
Against Cynicism
A philosopher's brilliant reasons for living
https://newrepublic.com/article/113387/peter-sloterdijks-philosophy-gives-reasons-living
There's a very old and very simple therapy for all of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZWRnFTv4zo&list=PLob1mZcVWOajh6bjAS-I13a4bxu8vBsZW&index=122
The stories we're telling ourselves are madness. If you want to boil yourself down and learn/know what's essentially true...
Isolation, self reflection and nature are the healers. It's the emotions that get ya'.
A philosopher's brilliant reasons for living
https://newrepublic.com/article/113387/peter-sloterdijks-philosophy-gives-reasons-living
There's a very old and very simple therapy for all of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZWRnFTv4zo&list=PLob1mZcVWOajh6bjAS-I13a4bxu8vBsZW&index=122
The stories we're telling ourselves are madness. If you want to boil yourself down and learn/know what's essentially true...
Isolation, self reflection and nature are the healers. It's the emotions that get ya'.
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0745647693?pc_redir=T1&qid=1465683716&s=books&sr=1-4
Starstruck said:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0745647693?pc_redir=T1&qid=1465683716&s=books&sr=1-4
Re: Re:
I've spent plenty of time out in the wilds of Van. Isle tree planting, mushroom picking, and hiking/camping alone for up to 10 days at a time. The bears and wolves are a minor concern, the cougars are the great unknown - creepy. The weather; wet is wet, cold is cold. Food can be a problem but I always take rice and lentils and a mini stove. It's all the shite in your head that's the hardest. Dealing with your own story is brutal.
Hunger teaches one something, but rattling around in one's own thoughts is something else. The macro. isn't geo-politics, it's far more than that and we're so much smaller than that. These idiots that think they're in control are going to learn something about life. Just when they think they have it all standardized, defined, refined to their contrived specifications an almighty storm cuts loose.
aphronesis said:
I've spent plenty of time out in the wilds of Van. Isle tree planting, mushroom picking, and hiking/camping alone for up to 10 days at a time. The bears and wolves are a minor concern, the cougars are the great unknown - creepy. The weather; wet is wet, cold is cold. Food can be a problem but I always take rice and lentils and a mini stove. It's all the shite in your head that's the hardest. Dealing with your own story is brutal.
Hunger teaches one something, but rattling around in one's own thoughts is something else. The macro. isn't geo-politics, it's far more than that and we're so much smaller than that. These idiots that think they're in control are going to learn something about life. Just when they think they have it all standardized, defined, refined to their contrived specifications an almighty storm cuts loose.
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There are multiplicities of macro. And in fact Sloterdijk enfolds your "geopolitics" into greater spheres of human experience as conceived to account for phenomena beyond the self.. But the fact that you seem unable or unwilling to let go of your "I" in any capacity tends to undercut much of what you propose as the extreme finitude of human relevance.
Re:
The Anthropocene is definitely a Macro. but it's still subject to a far more powerful Macro. - nature, as much as we're generally (and you specifically) unwilling to acknowledge that. "I" is a manufactured conceit, like any bad habit. "I" am fully aware of this. Nature couldn't care less, it would wipe any of us out, or reintegrate us, in a heartbeat. Until one deconstructs the self there's no way to know that though. I know of no better way than isolation in overwhelming nature. That's a direct route, so "I" think you're missing what I'm saying.
Ultimately "I" don't really have much concern for what Sloterdijk is saying (or you) because only "I" can do it for myself, and nobody else can. That's the only rule.
aphronesis said:
The Anthropocene is definitely a Macro. but it's still subject to a far more powerful Macro. - nature, as much as we're generally (and you specifically) unwilling to acknowledge that. "I" is a manufactured conceit, like any bad habit. "I" am fully aware of this. Nature couldn't care less, it would wipe any of us out, or reintegrate us, in a heartbeat. Until one deconstructs the self there's no way to know that though. I know of no better way than isolation in overwhelming nature. That's a direct route, so "I" think you're missing what I'm saying.
Ultimately "I" don't really have much concern for what Sloterdijk is saying (or you) because only "I" can do it for myself, and nobody else can. That's the only rule.
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Of course the "I" is a fiction. And since "we've" never discussed it you wouldn't really know "my" position on it. Would you like some reading or just some youtube videos where others do the heavy lifting for you? What you're saying was clear the first 50 times you rehearsed it. (Although some work on perception and 1st, 2nd and 3rd stage nature might help sharpen--or complicate-this primeval profundity) Insofar as "nature" is indifferent to you, it is equally indifferrent to your rehearsals and pronouncements of how you came to this sage conclusion. And yet there you are, staging your biography via technology.
Slight paradox.
Slight paradox.
Re:
You can provide whatever reading materials you wish, they'd be welcome. Your paranoid anarchy links are old hat though. I watch/listen to youtube videos lectures/talks while I'm painting and sculpting. I appreciate the information that's available regardless of the format. I do plenty of reading too.
!st, 2nd and 3rd stage nature, lol, wtf are you talking about - perception. Go out in the wild and talk about your *** perceptions and see where they get you. Narcissistic, anthropocentric wankers prevail, for now. I can assure you "nature" is indifferent to your scribblings too.
You should reconcile the paradox via logic. Go ahead, you'd be the first in history.
aphronesis said:
You can provide whatever reading materials you wish, they'd be welcome. Your paranoid anarchy links are old hat though. I watch/listen to youtube videos lectures/talks while I'm painting and sculpting. I appreciate the information that's available regardless of the format. I do plenty of reading too.
!st, 2nd and 3rd stage nature, lol, wtf are you talking about - perception. Go out in the wild and talk about your *** perceptions and see where they get you. Narcissistic, anthropocentric wankers prevail, for now. I can assure you "nature" is indifferent to your scribblings too.
You should reconcile the paradox via logic. Go ahead, you'd be the first in history.
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Not all links are meant seriously. Anyway, little "aphro" was communing with bears, etc. as a child. No electricity or running water either. Deep, deep stuff. Maybe the "wild" you "perceive" as such comes in part from the culture you reject while embracing bougeois affectations like painting and sculpting--those are some new hat for sure--and the new proletarian pasttime of web scouring. Nothing personal, just a thought.
Gotta sleep babe.
Gotta sleep babe.
Re:
Oh yeah, you send me those links 'cause it's just a jest, like my posting here - it's all a clownshow. I'm completely down with that, my every post demonstrates it.
Maybe you were too young too appreciate it. When was the last time you were truly alone for a significant period of time and confronted yourself?
The "wild" isn't some abstract perception for me. It's right outside my door.
Yeah, being creative is a new-fangled invention. What planet are you on? Apparently you didn't soak up much of the native culture. Strip it down and it's will, intention and imagination. Create yourself consciously.
Oh, I'm definitely guilty of web-scouring. I've been down more than my share of rabbit holes. At worst I can say that humans are really crazy at this point. At best I can say that humans have a great capacity for imagination.
aphronesis said:
Oh yeah, you send me those links 'cause it's just a jest, like my posting here - it's all a clownshow. I'm completely down with that, my every post demonstrates it.
Maybe you were too young too appreciate it. When was the last time you were truly alone for a significant period of time and confronted yourself?
The "wild" isn't some abstract perception for me. It's right outside my door.
Yeah, being creative is a new-fangled invention. What planet are you on? Apparently you didn't soak up much of the native culture. Strip it down and it's will, intention and imagination. Create yourself consciously.
Oh, I'm definitely guilty of web-scouring. I've been down more than my share of rabbit holes. At worst I can say that humans are really crazy at this point. At best I can say that humans have a great capacity for imagination.
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Re: Re:
I just re-read part of this thread and realized I overlooked something you said about Pavlensky.
Not that it matters a great deal, but I don't think he is pranking nor punking for *** and giggles.
No way would he voluntarily subject himself to state-sponsored abuse for fun.
I've spent the better part of an hour reading about Pavlensky nailing his scrotum to Red Square, along with cutting off part of his ear and setting fire to the door of a historical house of horrors.
Also, I read a lengthy interview in which he explains why he does what he does.
He's definitely not trying to be funny.
p.s. I'd like to check out the "Alone" recommendation. Is it on netflix? I only ask because I can only access it through others.
Starstruck said:
I just re-read part of this thread and realized I overlooked something you said about Pavlensky.
Not that it matters a great deal, but I don't think he is pranking nor punking for *** and giggles.
No way would he voluntarily subject himself to state-sponsored abuse for fun.
I've spent the better part of an hour reading about Pavlensky nailing his scrotum to Red Square, along with cutting off part of his ear and setting fire to the door of a historical house of horrors.
Also, I read a lengthy interview in which he explains why he does what he does.
He's definitely not trying to be funny.
p.s. I'd like to check out the "Alone" recommendation. Is it on netflix? I only ask because I can only access it through others.
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Re: Re:
Skitsnack, what a jumble of positions. Quite the contrary, the "wild" is a socially determined remainder of the physical world that people engage with according to their limits. At least that's all you'll ever be capable of "perceiving". Or until you're reintegrated with the cosmos (unless of course you're already two-dimensional information thrilling as a hologram). If this is the ultimate macro and truth, why not give up your car(s), house, podcasts, nostalgia culture etc. and then get out in the wild? Should be no problem to get over "emotions" and the socially determined "voices" in your head when you're getting on with survival.
If we're going to go centuries old, let me know when you can do more than regurgitate a Kantian sublime. Why not go full Diogenes and wander indigent through the wild? Pick up a postcard or two on the frontier edge and give an update on your revelations as to how you and nature are bigger than geopolitics and subsumption by capital.
"Creativity" is a relatively modern conceit and even given a millenia or two back, it still needs to have social traction as opposed to even further back when it was integral to belief systems of the social apparatus. Much like your natives. Being generous, painting lost any cultural relevance with the early 1900s--maybe with belated pathological resurgence in the 40s and 50s--other than some public works projects in the "socialist" vein. Sculpture has survived longer owing to its "public" materiality, but not in any forms that "you" would recognize as "creative art", because they're mostly ugly, ramshackle, non-traditional and lack all of the "individual" hallmarks of "personal expression" that the reactionary petit bourgeois associate with art (and music) as a means of clawing out their tenuous and fictive subject positions inside the order that defines them. Creative taste, of course, also provides a means of "feeling" aloof (remote) from the coarse degradations that material culture manifests in one's neighbors. There are more contemporary modes of socially engaged "creativity" that open onto the possibility of communicating anarchist principles which might periodically disrupt that quaint and tasteful domesticity.
Starstruck said:
Skitsnack, what a jumble of positions. Quite the contrary, the "wild" is a socially determined remainder of the physical world that people engage with according to their limits. At least that's all you'll ever be capable of "perceiving". Or until you're reintegrated with the cosmos (unless of course you're already two-dimensional information thrilling as a hologram). If this is the ultimate macro and truth, why not give up your car(s), house, podcasts, nostalgia culture etc. and then get out in the wild? Should be no problem to get over "emotions" and the socially determined "voices" in your head when you're getting on with survival.
If we're going to go centuries old, let me know when you can do more than regurgitate a Kantian sublime. Why not go full Diogenes and wander indigent through the wild? Pick up a postcard or two on the frontier edge and give an update on your revelations as to how you and nature are bigger than geopolitics and subsumption by capital.
"Creativity" is a relatively modern conceit and even given a millenia or two back, it still needs to have social traction as opposed to even further back when it was integral to belief systems of the social apparatus. Much like your natives. Being generous, painting lost any cultural relevance with the early 1900s--maybe with belated pathological resurgence in the 40s and 50s--other than some public works projects in the "socialist" vein. Sculpture has survived longer owing to its "public" materiality, but not in any forms that "you" would recognize as "creative art", because they're mostly ugly, ramshackle, non-traditional and lack all of the "individual" hallmarks of "personal expression" that the reactionary petit bourgeois associate with art (and music) as a means of clawing out their tenuous and fictive subject positions inside the order that defines them. Creative taste, of course, also provides a means of "feeling" aloof (remote) from the coarse degradations that material culture manifests in one's neighbors. There are more contemporary modes of socially engaged "creativity" that open onto the possibility of communicating anarchist principles which might periodically disrupt that quaint and tasteful domesticity.
Wild has nothing to do with "socially determined", that's why it's wild. You should get out there by yourself and you'd realize how silly the rest of your screed is. I think we're going to find out (are finding out) where geopolitics and subsumption by capital fit in relation to life on this planet. A mere blip. https://www.amazon.ca/Learning-Die-Anthropocene-Reflections-Civilization/dp/0872866696/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465747968&sr=1-1&keywords=learning+to+die+in+the+anthropocene
So creativity isn't integral to belief systems of the social apparatus now? We'll have to disagree. Why should I concern myself over your opinion of the cultural relevance of painting? Why should I concern myself if it has cultural relevance or not? It's a fun medium to explore, same with sculpture. I'd agree that abstract expressionism, conceptual and contemporary art is often ugly, the creative expression really happens in the subjective viewer interpreting what it means. The hyper intellectualized descriptions are usually more interesting than the object they're meant to represent. it's not all bad but mostly it's egoistic twattle (my opinion), and usually poorly crafted as to boot.
Apparently this sort of degradation of artistic expression is one of the hallmarks of civilization in collapse. Architecture has suffered the same fate as JH Kunstler likes to point out. His website is down though.
You should engage in whatever contemporary modes of socially engaged art you want to.
So creativity isn't integral to belief systems of the social apparatus now? We'll have to disagree. Why should I concern myself over your opinion of the cultural relevance of painting? Why should I concern myself if it has cultural relevance or not? It's a fun medium to explore, same with sculpture. I'd agree that abstract expressionism, conceptual and contemporary art is often ugly, the creative expression really happens in the subjective viewer interpreting what it means. The hyper intellectualized descriptions are usually more interesting than the object they're meant to represent. it's not all bad but mostly it's egoistic twattle (my opinion), and usually poorly crafted as to boot.
Apparently this sort of degradation of artistic expression is one of the hallmarks of civilization in collapse. Architecture has suffered the same fate as JH Kunstler likes to point out. His website is down though.
You should engage in whatever contemporary modes of socially engaged art you want to.
Re: Re:
I don't know if it's on Netflix, just have this lap-top.
That's how I see Pavlensky. I'm sure he's serious.the delgados said:
I don't know if it's on Netflix, just have this lap-top.
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I should have been clearer: creativity is always yoked to belief systems. Painting (and mimetic, in the weak sense) and the plastic arts are past their due date re. contemporary belief systems. The discourse is inseparable from the work. That holds for conceptualism, some of it is lame.
You are socially determined, therefore your experience of the wild is socially determined. Saying otherwise is what's silly. But keep shouting "me"; just don't let the cougars hear you.
Starstruck said:
I should have been clearer: creativity is always yoked to belief systems. Painting (and mimetic, in the weak sense) and the plastic arts are past their due date re. contemporary belief systems. The discourse is inseparable from the work. That holds for conceptualism, some of it is lame.
You are socially determined, therefore your experience of the wild is socially determined. Saying otherwise is what's silly. But keep shouting "me"; just don't let the cougars hear you.
"You are socially determined, therefore your experience of the wild is socially determined' that's the challenge, and the struggle - the whole point. To tune out of the socially determined and tune into the non socially determined.
If you want to be culturally relevant go ahead. You'll need to shout ME! ME! ME! very loud to be heard above the cacophony though.
If you want to be culturally relevant go ahead. You'll need to shout ME! ME! ME! very loud to be heard above the cacophony though.
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I'll say this more simply: nothing you will ever see, think, say or feel is not socially determined. Nothing. The most you can do (please) is to provide a more compelling account of the alienation your posts repeatedly embrace and deny. Skip the crude, naif repetition--it doesn't translate.
Re:
Define nothing.
If there's no self overcoming why bother with suggesting Nietzsche? No transcendence? No overwhelming? Forget philosophy. I'm completely a slave to my culture. You're really upbeat. I was merely suggesting that getting out into (ok, there's no 1st nature but there's still places that count as a close 2nd) by oneself is a great direct challenge with lots of imposed self reflection as well as being overwhelmed by "forces" that require adaptation or death. An exploration of our smallness in the cosmos in a very visceral way. It's sadly lacking in our 3rd nature echo chamber.
I'm sorry you've only read about it, the direct experience is far better.
Art (painting, writing, sculpture, music) is another great way to self reflect and explore. Why somebody would limit themselves to "culturally relevant" when it's largely agreed that it's sick and dying and the need to break free is paramount is beyond me. Oh right, you succeeded in "the system" thus you, like every authority want validation.
aphronesis said:
Define nothing.
If there's no self overcoming why bother with suggesting Nietzsche? No transcendence? No overwhelming? Forget philosophy. I'm completely a slave to my culture. You're really upbeat. I was merely suggesting that getting out into (ok, there's no 1st nature but there's still places that count as a close 2nd) by oneself is a great direct challenge with lots of imposed self reflection as well as being overwhelmed by "forces" that require adaptation or death. An exploration of our smallness in the cosmos in a very visceral way. It's sadly lacking in our 3rd nature echo chamber.
I'm sorry you've only read about it, the direct experience is far better.
Art (painting, writing, sculpture, music) is another great way to self reflect and explore. Why somebody would limit themselves to "culturally relevant" when it's largely agreed that it's sick and dying and the need to break free is paramount is beyond me. Oh right, you succeeded in "the system" thus you, like every authority want validation.
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The complete absence of something..
You have no idea what anyone else has read, experienced or done professionally, unless they've told you.
All the rest is just the anguished bleat of the sad and beautiful soul. Keep trying though. (Personally, it's probably best to practice shadowboxing alone: everything else smacks of paranoia, desperation and insecurity.)
Don't need to "get away from it all" to self-overcome. And even if one did, it clearly hasn't stuck.
Monomania: check it out.
You have no idea what anyone else has read, experienced or done professionally, unless they've told you.
All the rest is just the anguished bleat of the sad and beautiful soul. Keep trying though. (Personally, it's probably best to practice shadowboxing alone: everything else smacks of paranoia, desperation and insecurity.)
Don't need to "get away from it all" to self-overcome. And even if one did, it clearly hasn't stuck.
Monomania: check it out.
Re:
Is a negation the same as a definition?
I'm not really concerned about you. I'm talking about something bigger than you, you, you. Paranoia and insecurity should be familiar to you, send me some more crazy ***.
You essentially just told me there's no self overcoming. Make up your inconsistent mind.
Yeah, 19th century psychiatry is a great source of knowledge. Do you pull women by telling them you'll relieve their hysteria too?
aphronesis said:
Is a negation the same as a definition?
I'm not really concerned about you. I'm talking about something bigger than you, you, you. Paranoia and insecurity should be familiar to you, send me some more crazy ***.
You essentially just told me there's no self overcoming. Make up your inconsistent mind.
Yeah, 19th century psychiatry is a great source of knowledge. Do you pull women by telling them you'll relieve their hysteria too?
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