Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

To be fair 2/3 of the streak was completed in the winter prior to van Aert's crash.

As i said, Van Aert has been focussing on the road since his last season at WV Crelan.

 

[Bonimenier]

As i said, Van Aert has been focussing on the road since his last season at WV Crelan.

He had 30 crossdays in the 2018/19 winter. Definitely still had a massive focus on cross as well back then.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He had 30 crossdays in the 2018/19 winter. Definitely still had a massive focus on cross as well back then.

Ugh, it's not because he did a lot of races that his focus hadn't shifted in a major way. You think the plan was to do a normal CX winter, while simply adding an entire spring campaign to it? Please.

 

[Bonimenier]

Ugh, it's not because he did a lot of races that his focus hadn't shifted in a major way. You think the plan was to do a normal CX winter, while simply adding an entire spring campaign to it? Please.

Apparently so. Please.

 

[proffate]

I think Van der Poel should really think about stopping mountain bike, at this point it might ruin the chance of him having a great road cycling career and not just a good one.

MVDP has the unique opportunity to be the only rider in history who has won one of everything across all disciplines (except track, which is just boring). I'd like to see him win a WC on the road, mtb and cx; olympic gold in one or more disciplines; a TDF green jersey and as many of the 5 road monuments as possible. That would be more entertaining by far than seeing him win the same road race 7 times.

 

[Jspear]

MVDP has the unique opportunity to be the only rider in history who has won one of everything across all disciplines (except track, which is just boring). I'd like to see him win a WC on the road, mtb and cx; olympic gold in one or more disciplines; a TDF green jersey and as many of the 5 road monuments as possible. That would be more entertaining by far than seeing him win the same road race 7 times.

Too late.

Pauline Ferrand-Prévot

 

[Ricco']

Too late.

Pauline Ferrand-Prévot

No Olympic win.

This as I interpreted the OP as VDP being the only active rider who could achieve all that he posted afterwards, not only the 3 WCh.

 

[Jspear]

No Olympic win.

This as I interpreted the OP as VDP being the only active rider who could achieve all that he posted afterwards, not only the 3 WCh.

Fiiiiiine

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Apparently so. Please.

What makes anything about your statement "apparent"? The fact that he did a lot of races where he cashed roughly €10.000 or more for just showing up? But if you want to believe his focus was on CX (other than financially) from september on and was still one of the stronger classics riders in april, knock yourself out.

 

[stonerider]

MVDP has the unique opportunity to be the only rider in history who has won one of everything across all disciplines (except track, which is just boring). I'd like to see him win a WC on the road, mtb and cx; olympic gold in one or more disciplines; a TDF green jersey and as many of the 5 road monuments as possible. That would be more entertaining by far than seeing him win the same road race 7 times.

I happen to believe Tom Pidcock may beat MvdP as the male to win WC in CX, Road, and MTB. Tom is already the Olympic MTB champion and he should pick up the CX WC at the end of the month. MTB WC would be easy for him because MvdP can't do the long climbs as well.

 

[senna6541]

Yep. Completely different level. The Wout fans hate it, but when you look at the actual data, MVDP is just better when they line up in the same race, with the same objective, on anywhere near equal form...

My mistake MVDP ran off 36 straight...

Ugh, it's not because he did a lot of races that his focus hadn't shifted in a major way. You think the plan was to do a normal CX winter, while simply adding an entire spring campaign to it? Please.

Probably true, Logic. But then MVDP was also better on the road than WVA in 2019 - in addition to being better on the MTB - had a pretty good MTB season in 2019 along with everything else...

 

[senna6541]

True, Wout fans probably hate it when their favorite rider is sidelined for an entire winter due to a nasty injury, but i doubt they were concerned with Mathieu's streak at that time. I guess Van Aert had a different objective then. Not that that was anything new, since he shifted his focus more towards the spring instead of the winter, before he rode his first Strade in a Crelan shirt.

Well, for the record Logic, now that MVDP is out indefinitely (and I hope he doesn't rush things), I be rooting for WVA. Also, I'll pay him a compliment as it seems like he's riding much more efficiently/smoothly in CX races this season (despite the dropped chain and small crash/shoe issue). Too bad MVDP is off this CX season as it would've been a great battle. As for the CX WC's, I'm an American, but not sure it's a great idea to have the WC's here...At least not until the top US men get a bit better. Love Kerry Werner, but not pretty when he's getting pulled even when starting near the front.

 

[senna6541]

True, Wout fans probably hate it when their favorite rider is sidelined for an entire winter due to a nasty injury, but i doubt they were concerned with Mathieu's streak at that time. I guess Van Aert had a different objective then. Not that that was anything new, since he shifted his focus more towards the spring instead of the winter, before he rode his first Strade in a Crelan shirt.

Well, for the record Logic, now that MVDP is out indefinitely (and I hope he doesn't rush things), I be rooting for WVA. Also, I'll pay him a compliment as it seems like he's riding much more efficiently/smoothly in CX races this season (despite the dropped chain and small crash/shoe issue). Too bad MVDP is off this CX season as it would've been a great battle. As for the CX WC's, I'm an American, but not sure it's a great idea to have the WC's here...At least not until the top US men get a bit better. Love Kerry Werner, but not pretty when he's getting pulled even when starting near the front.

 

[Jspear]

I happen to believe Tom Pidcock may beat MvdP as the male to win WC in CX, Road, and MTB. Tom is already the Olympic MTB champion and he should pick up the CX WC at the end of the month. MTB WC would be easy for him because MvdP can't do the long climbs as well.

This is true. What MVDP has going against him is the Olympic gold part. It is just really hard getting a gold medal as a cyclist. (Excluding track. I know there are more of those to pass around.)

 

[Gwbert]

This is true. What MVDP has going against him is the Olympic gold part. It is just really hard getting a gold medal as a cyclist. (Excluding track. I know there are more of those to pass around.)

Pidcock is also quite a bit younger and has already chalked off the Olympic Gold, which is probably the hardest as it only comes around every four years.

 

[Fucine]

My mistake MVDP ran off 36 straight...

Probably true, Logic. But then MVDP was also better on the road than WVA in 2019 - in addition to being better on the MTB - had a pretty good MTB season in 2019 along with everything else...

As i said, Van Aert has been focussing on the road since his last season at WV Crelan.

Hi all I think that WVA's focus was not the point there. In 2018-2019 winter he was clearly overweight/too bulky and it's unfair to pick his level at the time to make a comparison, it's like picking 2020 summer for MVDP. I clearly remember that WVA stated that road racing made him bulkier - that sounded quite nonsense to me at that time - and he said that extra muscle kilos wouldn't have been detrimental for his CX performance, but that was not the case. He couldn't beat Aerts and he was finally able to win a major race in only Pontchateau in January 2020 - if I'm not wrong. Probably there was something wrong in his preparation and Crelan didn't have the know-how to manage him correctly (and there were troubles between him and the team management, as we know). For the same reason he underperformed a bit in the first half of road season in Jumbo Visma and MVDP was far superior in road racing too. Then, Jumbo made him lose weight and, when he started the TdF in July, he was much thinner.

MVDP is undoubtely superior to WVA in CX racing, but not to such an extent that we can say he is on a completely different level, emphasizing the MVDP's incredible winstreak. 2018-2019 (for the fact mentioned above) and 2019-2020 (obviously for WVA's injury) are not fair picks.
He is unmatchable in short interval efforts and his technical skills are incredible, so he's unbeatable in the average CX course. But where there are longer power sections (longer climbs, longer mud or sand sections) and/or heavier running sections WVA can beat him, and it's not so uncommon to find CX courses with this features.

We can translate the same thing on the road. Races like RvV, Amstel or Leuven WCH, with repeated short climbs, are more suited to MVDP and WVA could beat him only by having more stamina or outsprinting him in a longer sprint finish. But this is just one of possible kind of 1-day race: WVA is probably superior in races like MSR and GW (that he won) and in a classic Lombardia too (if Jumbo had sent him to Lombardia in 2020 instead of Dauphiné, I think he would have been able to beat Fulgsang outsprinting in him in Como). In PR I think it can be a 50-50, in LBL I would pick MVDP.

So I think it's not fair saying that MVDP in his best always beat WVA, given also the fact that we probably haven't seen yet a full showdown with the two at their maximum possibilities in a road race (for example, a Strade Bianche 2021 MVDP vs Strade Bianche 2020 WVA). Unfortunately, we won't probably see it in 2022 too because of MVDP back problems, hoping for a complete recovery for him.

In addition, the comparison between the two in 1-day races will be heavy influenced by a quantity over quality matter. They both need a bit more stamina to consistently win in 1-day races, otherwise they'll keep losing to Pedersen, Colbrelli, Asgreen and so on.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

My .02c worth:

Absolutely not true. The damage is caused over time - not sudden like contact sports - or CX/MTB. I had surgery for collapsed L4, L5 and S1 disc surgery 4 years ago - cause: road cycling - the strive to be as aero as possible and lower and lower stem heights just exacerbates the stresses on the lower back. I'm older than MVDP but I don't do the kms that pros do. Of course there can be hereditary problems and it seems that is a likely factor too.

I also disagree with the view of glassmoon. I don't know the full extent of MVDP's condition but I would be surprised if he can't get this sorted with the right help - he is still quite young.

Lumbar Spine Anatomy Video

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Have you ever ridden a cyclocross race through heavy mud ? Or a mountain bike race with steep climbs and high jumps ?
If yes, compare that to a race on the road . And that several times in a row . If you do that with a bad back, can you come and write down the result here ?

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

MVDP has the unique opportunity to be the only rider in history who has won one of everything across all disciplines (except track, which is just boring). I'd like to see him win a WC on the road, mtb and cx; olympic gold in one or more disciplines; a TDF green jersey and as many of the 5 road monuments as possible. That would be more entertaining by far than seeing him win the same road race 7 times.

But this won't happen. Not even winning the same "boring" road races seven times . With his back. With his body. You're mixing everything up. It's not because you have the talent to shine in different disciplines ... and you have the character to do this, that you can handle that physically. Most riders can't. And for a while we also know that MVDP can't do that either.
I hope he sees that now. Otherwise he might even miss out on a road career.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481622794295255040

View: https://twitter.com/cyclocross24/status/1481622794295255040

 

[glassmoon]

When will they actually acknowledge that he isn't having a back injury but he actually does have a back condition?

 

[stonerider]

You know what they say, "the candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long". That, I'm afraid, will sum up MvdP's career.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

You know what they say, "the candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long". That, I'm afraid, will sum up MvdP's career.

That was for another Dutchman, Rutger Hauer.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

That was for another Dutchman, Rutger Hauer.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.

 

[Salvarani]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1481622794295255040

View: https://twitter.com/cyclocross24/status/1481622794295255040

A lot of things going on...

This has to affect him mentally also.

Hope we will see him again, but might take some time.

At this rate it might be better to just sit out the whole spring and first half of the season.

 

[KZD]

I am sure Van der Poel will do everything to be on the start line of Flanders and Roubaix even if he has to drop out of Milan San Remo but I actually wonder if focusing in the Ardennes classics this season wouldn't be a better option for his back if he doesn't recover well enough. Then in the period after the classics he will need to choose between riding mountain bike or to properly prepare for a full Tour de France, I don't think switching between the two bikes is advisable unless the problem is totally solved.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I am sure Van der Poel will do everything to be on the start line of Flanders and Roubaix even if he has to drop out of Milan San Remo but I actually wonder if focusing in the Ardennes classics this season wouldn't be a better option for his back if he doesn't recover well enough.

To be honest, I've seen quite a few comments like this; I don't want him doing everything to be back in time for those races. I want him to recover properly. Come back when he's sorted; if that means mid season, so be it.