Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Are you serious?

Just dont react

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Not superhuman today but enough to win. Don't get me wrong, he was super strong, but he didn't just demolish the field. Pidcock looked just as strong. However, he's still my number 1 favorite for Flanders and Roubaix - that certainly hasn't changed after today. Great win and so nice to have him back racing. Cycling is just more fun when Van der Poel is riding.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Not superhuman today but enough to win. Don't get me wrong, he was super strong, but he didn't just demolish the field. Pidcock looked just as strong. However, he's still my number 1 favorite for Flanders and Roubaix - that certainly hasn't changed after today. Great win and so nice to have him back racing. Cycling is just more fun when Van der Poel is riding.

You are forgetting about the course though.

Dwars door Vlaanderen is not comparable to E3, Omloop or RVV.

The course and especially the final 30ish kilometers are too easy for that. You can't "Demolish" a field with this race

 

[Hugo Koblet]

You are forgetting about the course though.

Dwars door Vlaanderen is not comparable to E3, Omloop or RVV.

The course and especially the final 30ish kilometers are too easy for that. You can't "Demolish" a field with this race

I'm not forgetting the course. I wrote about it earlier. But "demolish the field" is probably a wrong term to use, I'll give you that. It's not that I expected him to solo for 30 km's, it's just that he wasn't the strongest in the race by a huge margin is what I meant.

 

[Bolder]

I'm not forgetting the course. I wrote about it earlier. But "demolish the field" is probably a wrong term to use, I'll give you that. It's not that I expected him to solo for 30 km's, it's just that he wasn't the strongest in the race by a huge margin is what I meant.

He looks a bit skinny and had an awful sounding cough after winning. Hope he's not coming down with something.

 

[Valv.Piti]

For what its worth, I always cough like that after extremely intense effort, especially when Im feeling great since it means I can just dig that much deeper, but yeah... not really trying to compare myself with Mathieu here.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Just thinking aloud here - I think Van Aert should be in a bit better shape compared to Mathieu on Sunday given their respective preparations, but by Amstel + Roubaix I think the shape should be levelled or in favour of VDP.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well after the forced break they were originally aiming for Mathieu to be good in the Ardennes tripple instead. It was that the training in Spain went so well they moved up to Flandres classics anyway

 

[OlavEH]

Just thinking aloud here - I think Van Aert should be in a bit better shape compared to Mathieu on Sunday given their respective preparations, but by Amstel + Roubaix I think the shape should be levelled or in favour of VDP.

And three duels between VdP and Van Aert the coming weeks. Throw in Pogacar in RVV and hopefully some hilly classic specialists in Amstel, and we'll hopefully see some great racing.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

It was quite close in De Ronde, though...

Van Aert only lost the sprint in Flanders 2020 by starting to sprint too late. I also remember Van Aert beating VDP in a sprint, both in road races and in CX.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Just dont react

Oh?

Are you serious?

Benoot still riding like a donkey's ass or maybe he thought Van Aert was there. If you want to beat van der Poel in a small group, you have to force him to do the work as much as possible and close the gaps unless you know you can drop him, which wasn't going to happen. Going to the finish, the only one who remotely had a shot was Pidcock.

 

[Blanco]

Van Der Poel strong and tactically flawless. Bring on De Ronde!

 

[Spine Concept]

Van Aert only lost the sprint in Flanders 2020 by starting to sprint too late. I also remember Van Aert beating VDP in a sprint, both in road races and in CX.

If this, if that. Same can be said for any rider at any point in any situation. Fact is, they didn’t and thus came in second deservedly. If Mathieu didn’t overtrain he’d have won a lot more races last year. If he didn’t do so much work he could have conserved more energy and beat Asgreen in the sprint. If, if, if. We can go on and on about this.

 

[senna6541]

nah those few centimeters were really 15 bike lengths, you just misjudged the camera angle

You guys know what I mean. MVDP career head to head in sprint finishes vs. Wout is probably even better than his straight head to head record against him - which is like 2 to 1. I'll give you Wout is the more accomplished "sprinter" (just like he's the more accomplished TT'er) on the road, but straight up, MVDP has owned him (CX, European Champs, TA, Flanders, etc.)

 

[senna6541]

He basically had nothing to control because all the slow guys kept chasing each other and closing all the gaps. Silver platter.

Poor Logic. Just a few weeks ago it seemed like you would finally have a real spring (we'll throw out the weird covid year when Wout managed to get it right) when you and the Wout honks wouldn't even have to worry about MVDP. Don't worry too much, Wout is still the big favorite for RVV - he's clearly way ahead of MVDP in terms of a proper build up and peak. Surely he'll win on Sunday.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Beast of a performance he put on today!

 

[Nick2413]

You guys know what I mean. MVDP career head to head in sprint finishes vs. Wout is probably even better than his straight head to head record against him - which is like 2 to 1. I'll give you Wout is the more accomplished "sprinter" (just like he's the more accomplished TT'er) on the road, but straight up, MVDP has owned him (CX, European Champs, TA, Flanders, etc.)

MVDP is the most explosive guy in the peloton, Wout can sprint well and might be built better for a long bunch lead out sprint but I think it’s pretty clear who has the upper edge in chaotic small group scenarios. They’re different riders though, it all depends on the dynamics of the race. I think MVDP is a bit more of a straight killer who can’t be beat on his day but I still give even odds to both.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Poor Logic. Just a few weeks ago it seemed like you would finally have a real spring (we'll throw out the weird covid year when Wout managed to get it right) when you and the Wout honks wouldn't even have to worry about MVDP. Don't worry too much, Wout is still the big favorite for RVV - he's clearly way ahead of MVDP in terms of a proper build up and peak. Surely he'll win on Sunday.

Not sure you think my logic is flawed, or whether you're having pity on me, when you say ''poor logic''. No need to feel sorry for me (if that's the meaning behind it), Van der Poel did it flawlessly and was one of the 3 strongest if not the strongest. I have no issue with him winning. By going to the finish with Benoot, he basically had the win in the bag, without Pidcock. But I do have an issue with how dumb the slowpokes raced, Benoot being the worst offender.

But my logic is most definitely not flawed, in case that was the meaning of your remark. There were two guys with a chance to win a sprint: Pidcock and Van der Poel. Basically they shared a 99% chance to win the race in case it came to a sprint, all things equal. This is a 180k race, so the scenario that either TP or MvdP were not going to win in a sprint was nihil, unlike a sprint after a 250+k race (like Mathieu lost against Asgreen and Colbrelli/Vermeersch). So what chances do the others have? They either have to drop them by being superior... but that wasn't going to happen in a 180k race against two bigger talents. Or the other option was to wear them down. If Küng, Benoot, Campenaerts etc, wanted to have any sort of chance to win, they had to attack and let Pidcock and Van der Poel do the work every time one of the other guys attacked. That way one of them might have had the chance to stay clear when the fast guys got tired or didn't feel like playing anymore.

Why on earth does Benoot close the gap on Campenaerts? That wasn't up to him, it was up to those who benefited from a sprint finish. Which is most definitely not Benoot. Not only does he not let those guys do the work, he even does the work for them. This guy is 28 years old, has 3 victories in his career which is way too few for his talent, has a university degree, but still doesn't know how to ride a final tactically in order to win. Riding for 2nd place though, that he (Benoot) can like a boss.

So the slowpokes all too often started chasing each other and closing each other down, blowing each other's chances, escorting either Pidcock or Van der Poel to the win. Both of them laughing all the way to the bank, every time one of the slow riders did the work for them. They effectively blew the only chance they had.

Then Benoot attacks and Mathieu catches him. No shame in that. But why does Benoot keep pulling? Again riding for 2nd place, because if he was to have even the slightest chance of winning at that moment, he would need to force Mathieu to do ALL of the work. And there was reason for Mathieu to keep pulling, because first of all he just did a big effort to bridge to Benoot and on the other hand Pidcock is only seconds behind. If at that moment Benoot refuses to pull Mathieu has a choice to make. Either keep pulling and take his chances in a sprint vs Benoot, which even if he keeps pulling is expected to win. Or he doesn't want to play and lets Pidcock come back and has to sprint vs Pidcock while he (Mathieu) just did a big effort. So there is plenty of reason for Mathieu to keep pulling even if Benoot doesn't pull. But Benoot doesn't want to risk it, and rather takes a guaranteed 2nd place (with no chance of winning) over a small chance of winning and a small chance of becoming 5th or 6th (in case MvdP doesn't want to keep pulling). While, should Mathieu keep pulling after having bridged to Benoot, and go all out for the last 1500 meters, Benoot might have an ever so slight chance to actually beat him. By taking turns however, he forfeit that chance.

Hence my remark.

 

[Ripper]

Not sure you think my logic is flawed, or whether you're having pity on me, when you say ''poor logic''. No need to feel sorry for me (if that's the meaning behind it), Van der Poel did it flawlessly and was one of the 3 strongest if not the strongest. I have no issue with him winning. By going to the finish with Benoot, he basically had the win in the bag, without Pidcock. But I do have an issue with how dumb the slowpokes raced, Benoot being the worst offender.

But my logic is most definitely not flawed, in case that was the meaning of your remark. There were two guys with a chance to win a sprint: Pidcock and Van der Poel. Basically they shared a 99% chance to win the race in case it came to a sprint, all things equal. This is a 180k race, so the scenario that either TP or MvdP were not going to win in a sprint was nihil, unlike a sprint after a 250+k race (like Mathieu lost against Asgreen and Colbrelli/Vermeersch). So what chances do the others have? They either have to drop them by being superior... but that wasn't going to happen in a 180k race against two bigger talents. Or the other option was to wear them down. If Küng, Benoot, Campenaerts etc, wanted to have any sort of chance to win, they had to attack and let Pidcock and Van der Poel do the work every time one of the other guys attacked. That way one of them might have had the chance to stay clear when the fast guys got tired or didn't feel like playing anymore.

Why on earth does Benoot close the gap on Campenaerts? That wasn't up to him, it was up to those who benefited from a sprint finish. Which is most definitely not Benoot. Not only does he not let those guys do the work, he even does the work for them. This guy is 28 years old, has 3 victories in his career which is way too few for his talent, has a university degree, but still doesn't know how to ride a final tactically in order to win. Riding for 2nd place though, that he (Benoot) can like a boss.

So the slowpokes all too often started chasing each other and closing each other down, blowing each other's chances, escorting either Pidcock or Van der Poel to the win. Both of them laughing all the way to the bank, every time one of the slow riders did the work for them. They effectively blew the only chance they had.

Then Benoot attacks and Mathieu catches him. No shame in that. But why does Benoot keep pulling? Again riding for 2nd place, because if he was to have even the slightest chance of winning at that moment, he would need to force Mathieu to do ALL of the work. And there was reason for Mathieu to keep pulling, because first of all he just did a big effort to bridge to Benoot and on the other hand Pidcock is only seconds behind. If at that moment Benoot refuses to pull Mathieu has a choice to make. Either keep pulling and take his chances in a sprint vs Benoot, which even if he keeps pulling is expected to win. Or he doesn't want to play and lets Pidcock come back and has to sprint vs Pidcock while he (Mathieu) just did a big effort. So there is plenty of reason for Mathieu to keep pulling even if Benoot doesn't pull. But Benoot doesn't want to risk it, and rather takes a guaranteed 2nd place (with no chance of winning) over a small chance of winning and a small chance of becoming 5th or 6th (in case MvdP doesn't want to keep pulling). While, should Mathieu keep pulling after having bridged to Benoot, and go all out for the last 1500 meters, Benoot might have an ever so slight chance to actually beat him. By taking turns however, he forfeit that chance.

Hence my remark.

Good analysis ... you could buddy up with Horner. Seriously, when has Benoot ever shown smart tactics? Lol

 

[Ripper]

Poor Logic. Just a few weeks ago it seemed like you would finally have a real spring (we'll throw out the weird covid year when Wout managed to get it right) when you and the Wout honks wouldn't even have to worry about MVDP. Don't worry too much, Wout is still the big favorite for RVV - he's clearly way ahead of MVDP in terms of a proper build up and peak. Surely he'll win on Sunday.

WTF? You do understand it is possible to be a fan of both riders? Or are you just having a bit of fun razzing people?

 

[jaylew]

Terrific race today. I honestly didn't think he was going to pull it off. As much as I'd Iike to see him win on Sunday I think Wout has to be the favorite. He looks a tad stronger atm and his team is going to be a big advantage. I could easily see 3 or more Jumbos in a group with only Mathieu from AF.

 

[tobydawq]

Oh?

Benoot still riding like a donkey's ass or maybe he thought Van Aert was there. If you want to beat van der Poel in a small group, you have to force him to do the work as much as possible and close the gaps unless you know you can drop him, which wasn't going to happen. Going to the finish, the only one who remotely had a shot was Pidcock.

Jesus man, if you want to be taken seriously when discussing Van Aert or Evenepoel it doesn't help your case if you're that blind when it comes to Van der Poel. Of course he didn't have to close every single gap himself but the other riders also wanted to win, and INEOS were there with two riders so of course they also did some of the closing. But THAT acceleration when he closed to Pidcock, Benoot and Campenaerts was just insane and there is probably only one other rider who could have closed that and still been fresh enough 2 kms later to make the final selection.

Edit: Okay, I now saw your more elaborate post than just one-lining "silver platter". Then I get you more, although you conveniently forget about Pidcock having a teammate in the group. I do agree that Benoot should never have taken a pull in the end.

 

[RunningRouleur]

I think this was one of MVDP's classic victories. Not on par with AGR, but an epic display of panache and strength nonetheless. Absolutely loved watching it, LFG for De Ronde!

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Jesus man, if you want to be taken seriously when discussing Van Aert or Evenepoel it doesn't help your case if you're that blind when it comes to Van der Poel. Of course he didn't have to close every single gap himself but the other riders also wanted to win, and INEOS were there with two riders so of course they also did some of the closing. But THAT acceleration when he closed to Pidcock, Benoot and Campenaerts was just insane and there is probably only one other rider who could have closed that and still been fresh enough 2 kms later to make the final selection.

Edit: Okay, I now saw your more elaborate post than just one-lining "silver platter". Then I get you more, although you conveniently forget about Pidcock having a teammate in the group. I do agree that Benoot should never have taken a pull in the end.

By now you should now i don't post to be mister popular. By now you also should know there is always a very good reason behind my statements. It's not my fault you or others always make assumptions or projections. If you (or anyone) don't think i can be taken seriously, then please put me on ignore. This is the second time you accuse me of that and the second time you are wrong. I am not a blind fanboy even if many here like to pull that card because it makes it easier to discredit my opinions. Unlike many here, i generally do not post "against" a rider (unless like now to call Benoot a horses ass, though i quite like Benoot). There are plenty of riders i do not like, yet i don't often speak of them (Wellens, Aerts, Nibali...) but Mathieu is not one of them.

 

[tobydawq]

By now you should now i don't post to be mister popular. By now you also should know there is always a very good reason behind my statements. It's not my fault you or others always make assumptions or projections. If you (or anyone) don't think i can be taken seriously, then please put me on ignore. This is the second time you accuse me of that and the second time you are wrong. I am not a blind fanboy even if many here like to pull that card because it makes it easier to discredit my opinions. Unlike many here, i generally do not post "against" a rider (unless like now to call Benoot a horses ass, though i quite like Benoot). There are plenty of riders i do not like, yet i don't often speak of them (Wellens, Aerts, Nibali...) but Mathieu is not one of them.

Okay, fair enough, your "silver platter" comment was just ridiculous if it were to be taken at face value.

I also think the very technical run-in made it a bit easier to close gaps.