Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[theyoungest]

Roglic could never follow an explosive attack like that. In fact I daresay when VDP is in absolute his best day, like SB 2021 or here, nobody can follow an attack that explosive, currently.

Pogacar probably could, if he raced a bit smarter. It's all a matter of the right circumstances. MVDP was strong but also smart. If he had closed the gap like Van Aert did he couldn't have made this jump.

 

[topcat]

Could peak Gerrans have followed MVDP on Saturday?
MSR 2023 and SB 2021- it’s fair to say he was unstoppable. What a rider!

 

[Barkintheeye]

So Mathieu is now on 5 wins in the spring classics* since 2000 together with i.a. Davide Rebellin, Julian Alaphilippe, Michal Kwiatkowski and Peter Sagan.

Since 2000 the four stand-out riders are:
Fabian Cancellara and Tom Boonen with 10 wins
Alejandro Valverde and Philippe Gilbert with 9 wins

*AMSTEL GOLD RACE, FLECHE VALLONNE, GENT-WEVELGEM, STRADE BIANCHE , MILANO-SAN REMO, RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN, PARIS-ROUBAIX and LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE

 

[Red Rick]

 

[Panda Claws]

Poulidor's face is just one of relief for not being Verbeeck avant la lettre.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Unless they used larger wheels and larger bikes back in the day, the photoshopper failed to get proportions right.

 

[Netserk]

So Mathieu is now on 5 wins in the spring classics* since 2000 together with i.a. Davide Rebellin, Julian Alaphilippe, Michal Kwiatkowski and Peter Sagan.

Since 2000 the four stand-out riders are:
Fabian Cancellara and Tom Boonen with 10 wins
Alejandro Valverde and Philippe Gilbert with 9 wins

*AMSTEL GOLD RACE, FLECHE VALLONNE, GENT-WEVELGEM, STRADE BIANCHE , MILANO-SAN REMO, RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN, PARIS-ROUBAIX and LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE

Anachronistic to count 2008 Strade on that level. I also wouldn't count the 2012 edition above E3.

 

[Blanco]

Anachronistic to count 2008 Strade on that level. I also wouldn't count the 2012 edition above E3.

Yes, much weaker than today, especially in 08'. I'd say that from 2013/14 Strade Bianche become a big classic.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Yes, much weaker than today, especially in 08'. I'd say that from 2013/14 Strade Bianche become a big classic.

Adjusting for that eats away into the wins of Gilbert and Cancellara but the overall picture remains unchanged. Boonen and Cancellara are the two top riders when it comes to spring classics in the modern era. Then followed by Valverde and Gilbert and while Valverde managed to win 2 of these 8 races Gilbert took 6 out of 8 and only missed GW and MSR which is an impressive feat in itself.

Unsurprisingly the three top riders of this era - that may also be able to get a similar track record - are MVDP, WVA and JA.

Pogacar, Remco and Pidcock could potentially also be there but most likely their wins will either be at LBL or FW. Just as for Valverde.

 

[Blanco]

Adjusting for that eats away into the wins of Gilbert and Cancellara but the overall picture remains unchanged. Boonen and Cancellara are the two top riders when it comes to spring classics in the modern era. Then followed by Valverde and Gilbert and while Valverde managed to win 2 of these 8 races Gilbert took 6 out of 8 and only missed GW and MSR which is an impressive feat in itself.

Unsurprisingly the three top riders of this era - that may also be able to get a similar track record - are MVDP, WVA and JA.

Pogacar, Remco and Pidcock could potentially also be there but most likely their wins will either be at LBL or FW. Just as for Valverde.

Both Pogacar and Pidcock already won Strade...

 

[Oldermanish]

As for Roglič debate. Each wrote his own opinion. And possible approaches for the future. Hence best to now wait if maybe next year this actually happens. Going further. I agree that this thread went form congratulating the winner to the whiners fest.

So again congratulations to Mathieu van der Poel for winning MS from my side. Now i am moving over to Catalunya.

....where Roglic is waiting for you.

 

[tobydawq]

Anachronistic to count 2008 Strade on that level. I also wouldn't count the 2012 edition above E3.

Ha, if Boonen had been the one to win that, I bet you wouldn't be coming with this comment.

In fact, Boonen is the only one from the top 4 of that year's edition of PR to not be in the top 4 of Strade. So it was probably not that easy a win.

Edit: By the way, this isn't to slight Boonen. I would happily include E3 in the list in which case he would be miles ahead.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Ha, if Boonen had been the one to win that, I bet you wouldn't be coming with this comment.

In fact, Boonen is the only one from the top 4 of that year's edition of PR to not be in the top 4 of Strade. So it was probably not that easy a win.

Edit: By the way, this isn't to slight Boonen. I would happily include E3 in the list in which case he would be miles ahead.

GCN did a Boonen vs Cancellara comparison and no matter how they sliced it they were very hard to separate. What’s totally clear is that both of them stand out during their active period (approx 2002-2017). No one else does really compare.

It is also quite clear that Valverde and Gilbert are the two closest to Boonen and Cancellara.

 

[tobydawq]

GCN did a Boonen vs Cancellara comparison and no matter how they sliced it they were very hard to separate. What’s totally clear is that both of them stand out during their active period (approx 2002-2017). No one else does really compare.

It is also quite clear that Valverde and Gilbert are the two closest to Boonen and Cancellara.

If you only look at the spring. Include Worlds and Lombardia and Bettini should enter the picture.

 

[Barkintheeye]

If you only look at the spring. Include Worlds and Lombardia and Bettini should enter the picture.

Yes, adding WC and Lombardia changes the picture. Some other names (eg Bettini and Sagan) will move up and Boonen might come out slightly better than Cancellara.

...and if we add WC CX wins MVDP will almost go to the top

 

[Barkintheeye]

Tom Boonen	16​
Fabian Cancellara	13​
Philippe Gilbert	12​
Alejandro Valverde	10​
Peter Sagan	9​
Julian Alaphilippe	7​
Michal Kwiatkowski	7​
Paolo Bettini	7​
Wout Van Aert	5​
Davide Rebellin	5​
Mathieu van der Poel	5​
Óscar Freire	5​

AMSTEL GOLD RACE FLECHE VALLONNE GENT-WEVELGEM STRADE BIANCHE MILANO-SAN REMO RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN PARIS-ROUBAIX LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE ROAD WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS LOMBARDIA E3 HARELBEKE

 

[Berflamand]

Tom Boonen	16​
Fabian Cancellara	13​
Philippe Gilbert	12​
Alejandro Valverde	10​
Peter Sagan	9​
Wout Van Aert	9​
Julian Alaphilippe	7​
Michal Kwiatkowski	7​
Paolo Bettini	7​
Davide Rebellin	5​
Mathieu van der Poel	5​
Óscar Freire	5​

AMSTEL GOLD RACE FLECHE VALLONNE GENT-WEVELGEM STRADE BIANCHE MILANO-SAN REMO RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN PARIS-ROUBAIX LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE ROAD WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS LOMBARDIA E3 HARELBEKE

That doesn't seem right. Van Aert on 9?

 

[Barkintheeye]

That doesn't seem right. Van Aert on 9?

Yes, sorry, that's correct. It's E3+Amstel+GWG+MSR+SB = 5

 

[Elos Anjos]

Now have some nerds do the time of Poulidor on the Poggio with adjusted bike weight.

 

[Netserk]

Ha, if Boonen had been the one to win that, I bet you wouldn't be coming with this comment.

In fact, Boonen is the only one from the top 4 of that year's edition of PR to not be in the top 4 of Strade. So it was probably not that easy a win.

Edit: By the way, this isn't to slight Boonen. I would happily include E3 in the list in which case he would be miles ahead.

Begrudgingly, I would. But no matter my motivation, either the argument is valid or it is not. No matter who put it forth.

Strade, especially the first editions, is the odd one out in that company. How many other races with 10 WT teams on the startlist would make it in that company?

So, do you agree or not with what I wrote? Which race was most important: 2012 Strade or 2012 E3?

 

[gregrowlerson]

Tom Boonen	16​
Fabian Cancellara	13​
Philippe Gilbert	12​
Alejandro Valverde	10​
Peter Sagan	9​
Julian Alaphilippe	7​
Michal Kwiatkowski	7​
Paolo Bettini	7​
Wout Van Aert	5​
Davide Rebellin	5​
Mathieu van der Poel	5​
Óscar Freire	5​

AMSTEL GOLD RACE FLECHE VALLONNE GENT-WEVELGEM STRADE BIANCHE MILANO-SAN REMO RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN PARIS-ROUBAIX LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE ROAD WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS LOMBARDIA E3 HARELBEKE

Interesting to see that WVA is on the same lvl as MVDP here.

 

[tobydawq]

Begrudgingly, I would. But no matter my motivation, either the argument is valid or it is not. No matter who put it forth.

Strade, especially the first editions, is the odd one out in that company. How many other races with 10 WT teams on the startlist would make it in that company?

So, do you agree or not with what I wrote? Which race was most important: 2012 Strade or 2012 E3?

I think it's about the same, probably a slight edge to Strade because it doesn't have a status of a preparation race.

 

[Blanco]

Tom Boonen	16​
Fabian Cancellara	13​
Philippe Gilbert	12​
Alejandro Valverde	10​
Peter Sagan	9​
Julian Alaphilippe	7​
Michal Kwiatkowski	7​
Paolo Bettini	7​
Wout Van Aert	5​
Davide Rebellin	5​
Mathieu van der Poel	5​
Óscar Freire	5​

AMSTEL GOLD RACE FLECHE VALLONNE GENT-WEVELGEM STRADE BIANCHE MILANO-SAN REMO RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN PARIS-ROUBAIX LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE ROAD WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS LOMBARDIA E3 HARELBEKE

If you're adding E3, than maybe San Sebastian has a place too.
Also Olympic RR must be included.
If you're counting races from 2000, Zuri-Metzgete and Paris-Tours were a big deal in the first decade of this century.
And so on... It's complicated, it's not maths.

Anyway, if we should rank classics riders of the current century, for me Boonen and Bettini have the edge. Than Gilbert, Cancellara, Valverde...
Of the active riders, Sagan is no.1, than Alaphilippe and Van Der Poel.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Interesting to see that WVA is on the same lvl as MVDP here.

probably because VDP usually races like an idiot in races like E3, Dwars etc.

 

[Blanco]

probably because VDP usually races like an idiot in races like E3, Dwars etc.

In Dwars he was such an idiot that he won twice