Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[SafeBet]

His dad seemed to indicate that for Lombardy a course change would be required.

Ofcourse this is all forumtalk anyway because Mathieu himself said he is not thinking about winning all 5.

If Pogacar (and Remco) start Lombardia in shape there's no route where Mathieu has a shot for the foreseeable future.

 

[Red Rick]

If Pogacar (and Remco) start Lombardia in shape there's no route where Mathieu has a shot for the foreseeable future.

2014 meme route maybe? Or do we assume teams just drill like Madonne del Ghisallo already?

I don't really know what the 2000s routes were like, but the Villa Vergano finish certainly was too hard.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Pigacar could easily win all 5 monument. Its scary. He has already RVV, LBL + GdL. Sanremo he just has to show up every year in good form and he will win it at some point. And we saw how strong he was in roubaix cobbles at le Tour last year, all he needs is bettiol in his team and he can win PR.

By contrast I don't see how VDP can win Liege or lombardia.

 

[SafeBet]

2014 meme route maybe? Or do we assume teams just drill like Madonne del Ghisallo already?

He's not surviving Passo di Ganda in today's peloton.

 

[Red Rick]

He's not surviving Passo di Ganda in today's peloton.

Probably. I remember being hyped about the 2014 route thinking Contador was totally gonna go nuts on Passo di Ganda. Young Rick was so optimistic about routes sometimes.

I don't even know what MvdPs best longer climb was, maybe Muro di Sormano and I don't know how far back he was there

 

[Didinho]

By contrast I don't see how VDP can win Liege or lombardia.

He was already 6th in 2020 after going solo in Benelux Tour the day before. He even said afterwards it was a mistake to not follow Mohoric in the descent. I still hope they will anounce him next week for Liege, wanna see what he can do in this form to get a good view if he can win (with Pogi and Remco). I'm optimistic for Liege.
The Sormano will always be a little to long against the climbers. It should all fall in to place for him to contest for the win.

 

[Ricco']

I don't even know what MvdPs best longer climb was, maybe Muro di Sormano and I don't know how far back he was there

Probaby Vetriolo in last year's Giro?

Don't remember the exact pace but in memory he was strong in that climb (although the combo with Monterovere proved to be too hard). Still, no match for the climbers pace.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Thanks.

Thanks.

You are a bit late to the party.

P.S. But i get it. Now everybody wants to be Mathieu. It's rather understandable.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

He's more likely to win multi discipline (CX, Road, XCC, XCO) World titles, than all 5 Monuments.

 

[Netserk]

2014 meme route maybe? Or do we assume teams just drill like Madonne del Ghisallo already?

I don't really know what the 2000s routes were like, but the Villa Vergano finish certainly was too hard.

2004:

2001-2003:

 

[Netserk]

2005 was a bit easier: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/oct05/lombardia05?id=map

For most of the old routes: https://xoomer.virgilio.it/ciclopedale/Lombardia/lombardia.htm

 

[Red Rick]

2005 was a bit easier: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/oct05/lombardia05?id=map

It's fairly in line with the difficulty of Liege, perhaps slightly easier but with Ghisallo as a more difficult climb to get rid of the puncheurs.

Van der Poel would have a shot in a different era IMO, but in this era I think he gets cleaned hard on a route like that. Perhaps Battaglia itself is already too hard for him anyway. Suits Van Aert better I think.

 

[Netserk]

A modern update of that route would include Sormano before Ghisallo, even if after Remco's crash it'd have to be the "wrong" side of it.

 

[Didinho]

2005 was a bit easier: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2005/oct05/lombardia05?id=map

For most of the old routes: https://xoomer.virgilio.it/ciclopedale/Lombardia/lombardia.htm

And the profiles when Gilbert won?
I always thought they switched the start with the finish every year and 1 of the 2 was less hard? Or is this already outdated?

 

[KZD]

He was already 6th in 2020 after going solo in Benelux Tour the day before. He even said afterwards it was a mistake to not follow Mohoric in the descent. I still hope they will anounce him next week for Liege, wanna see what he can do in this form to get a good view if he can win (with Pogi and Remco). I'm optimistic for Liege.
The Sormano will always be a little to long against the climbers. It should all fall in to place for him to contest for the win.

Exactly, in 2020 Van der Poel showed that he can win Liège although in hindsight it could have been a missed opportunity because I don't think he can hold on to Pogačar and Remco nowadays, if they are close to their best

As for Lombardia, I think its clearly more difficult even without Sormano, the Civiglio is still a hard 14-15 minute climb where he will lose simply too much time to Pogačar, Remco or even other climbers.

Still, I think a lot of what will happen until the end of Van der Poel's career will depend on what he prioritises. He can chase more wins at RVV and Roubaix which will likely bring him to a Bonnen/Cancellara level in those races , he can chase the 5 monuments which is in my opinion a more risky path as the probably of 'failure' is higher (but the reward is also higher) or he can also likes Axel pointed out, focus in winning Worlds or Olympic titles in several disciplines of cycling which could also include gravel besides the three mentioned.

 

[Netserk]

And the profiles when Gilbert won?
I always thought they switched the start with the finish every year and 1 of the 2 was less hard? Or is this already outdated?

In this century:

Bergamo finish: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2014, 2016, 2021
Como finish: 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2022
Lecco finish: 2011, 2012, 2013

There's multiple easily available sources for newer routes, just google it.

2010: https://www.gazzetta.it/Speciali/GiroLombardia/2010/it/download/GDL_2010_alt.pdf

La Flamme Rouge has them (once in a while there's a little mistake with some of the routes though): https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/races/view/2010/8

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Probaby Vetriolo in last year's Giro?

Don't remember the exact pace but in memory he was strong in that climb (although the combo with Monterovere proved to be too hard). Still, no match for the climbers pace.

i think he blew up in the Giro at some point, he did some very strong climb and then exploded in the final kilometers of the same climb.
Important note: he was not in top form that Giro. He was good but not great, even admitted that himself.

I do not believe or think VDP will ever climb like WvA or anything remotely close. But I think he's better than we've currently seen from him.

 

[Blanco]

He can definitely be up there in Liege, especially if he focuses on that, shed a few kilos. With the right circumstances he can win for sure.
Lombardia will be a tougher one...

 

[Red Rick]

He can definitely be up there in Liege, especially if he focuses on that, shed a few kilos. With the right circumstances he can win for sure.
Lombardia will be a tougher one...

If you peak for De Ronde you're not gonna carry a lot of unnecessary weight.

 

[Elos Anjos]

This talk about MDVP shedding a few kilos just to have a shot at LBL or IL...nonsense.
Let him stick to what he's good, excellent, outstanding at. Win a few more monuments, WC s and that will make up an already memorable career into a legendary one.
What's the use of chasing down two monuments that don't have your profile? He will probable loose what makes him good in the process.

 

[Didinho]

This talk about MDVP shedding a few kilos just to have a shot at LBL or IL...nonsense.
Let him stick to what he's good, excellent, outstanding at. Win a few more monuments, WC s and that will make up an already memorable career into a legendary one.
What's the use of chasing down two monuments that don't have your profile? He will probable loose what makes him good in the process.

He also said about winning 5 monuments that's what the media likes someone to do, not him. So I even think he won't ride Lombardia a lot, maybe even never again. He knows these clims are too long/hard.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If you peak for De Ronde you're not gonna carry a lot of unnecessary weight.

I remember last year or the year before there was an article about him having 5% fat or below. The only weight he could be losing is muscle. He can do that if he wants, but that means CX and cobbled classics go out the window. But it would give him a shot at Liège. He could try that maybe in a few years. I don't think he has a realistic shot at Lombardia unless they change the route. But Liège could happen, as long as Pogacar, Evenepoel etc, don't or can't compete there.

 

[Sciatic]

On the road, I would think winning the WC would dwarf any other ambitions.

 

[jaylew]

Pigacar could easily win all 5 monument. Its scary. He has already RVV, LBL + GdL. Sanremo he just has to show up every year in good form and he will win it at some point. And we saw how strong he was in roubaix cobbles at le Tour last year, all he needs is bettiol in his team and he can win PR.

By contrast I don't see how VDP can win Liege or lombardia.

I'd give him as much chance at Liège as Pogacar has at Roubaix. Wouldn't put money on either happening but I also wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Red Rick]

It's been a while since Van der Poel in a really good shape did a race like LBL against the best in the world. He basically hasn't since that very LBL. And he's better now.

Stage 1 in this Tour should give a great idea of what he could do in Liege.

Honestly though, the Tour route isn't great for Van der Poel.