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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Blanco

Blanco

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senna6541 said:
MVDP is the best he has ever been in CX (in absolute terms) because he is at his physical peak as an athlete (probably only has another 2 years) and he is healthy, but dominating in CX like this is nothing new for him. MVDP is intrinsically a level above Wout in CX and at least 2 levels above Piddy. Just because those lesser CX talents have issues with mixing CX and the road doesn't mean MVDP can't do it. He always has. I think this forum has too many folks that have only really watched cycling since Covid or something. Saw Wout do all his stuff at the TDF and saw MVDP struggle coming out of Covid and then struggle with the back for 21-22 and 22-23 CX. Unless he doesn't stay healthy (which is easier said than done in pro cycling), last year was pretty much what you can expect from MVDP over the next couple of years. Only I would argue that Pogi would have no shot at beating him at RVV like he did last year - when MVDP still had a pretty shallow base due to the back.
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I agree on this partly... Only shot Pogi have would be in the sprint, which basically means very weak shot.
As for last year, I think his highest peak was in the Worlds. There we could see how much he's ahead of closest competition on a course that suits him.
 
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shadowrider

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scribers said:
Wout is doing this the right way. Riding into spring form slowly. He just so happens to be ridiculously talented he makes podiums look like work
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I'm not sure. Already, the roadseason 2023 of Van Aert wasn't excellent. A different and less intensive (winter)training in preparation for the spring classics, OK. Therefore be defeated in cyclocross by VDP, OK. Although VDP wants to win the same Flanders and Roubaix and clearly has chosen for a better and more intense preparation. Which worries me that Van Aert is barely better than others outside VDP. Overweight (compared to the same period last year). No explosiveness, no accelerations. Resignation. Even clearly beaten by Ronhaar in the cyclocross of Koksijde. Not good signs. I think if he doesn't win at least Flanders or Roubaix this year (and, as last season, not winning stages anymore in small stageraces and GT's), he will no longer be considered a allround top rider like Pogacar and Evenepoel. And from 2025 will also have to act as a helper in the one-day races. A pity for such a talent with enormous physical qualities
 
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shadowrider said:
I'm not sure. Already, the roadseason 2023 of Van Aert wasn't excellent. A different and less intensive (winter)training in preparation for the spring classics, OK. Therefore be defeated in cyclocross by VDP, OK. Although VDP wants to win the same Flanders and Roubaix and clearly has chosen for a better and more intense preparation. Which worries me that Van Aert is barely better than others outside VDP. Overweight (compared to the same period last year). No explosiveness, no accelerations. Resignation. Even clearly beaten by Ronhaar in the cyclocross of Koksijde. Not good signs. I think if he doesn't win at least Flanders or Roubaix this year (and, as last season, not winning stages anymore in small stageraces and GT's), he will no longer be considered a allround top rider like Pogacar and Evenepoel. And from 2025 will also have to act as a helper in the one-day races. A pity for such a talent with enormous physical qualities
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Calm down mate. Last year around this time of the year WvA was beating MvdP in CX season heavily and it resulted in a rather disappointing road season. January isn't April, and let's see how his form will evolve over time.
 
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Keldergoat said:
Calm down mate. Last year around this time of the year WvA was beating MvdP in CX season heavily and it resulted in a rather disappointing road season. January isn't April, and let's see how his form will evolve over time.
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This time of the year he was beating him 5-3, and in the end it was 6-5 for Van Aert, but Mathieu won the WC. I wouldn't call that "heavily beating". In fact I wouldn't call that a beating at all.
What we're witnessing this season is heavily beating.
 
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shadowrider

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Keldergoat said:
Calm down mate. Last year around this time of the year WvA was beating MvdP in CX season heavily and it resulted in a rather disappointing road season. January isn't April, and let's see how his form will evolve over time.
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MvdP did the same CX-season last year. He was better in Flanders, equal in Roubaix and better at the worlds than Van Aert. The problem with Van Aert always was his devastating Tour. Year after year he had to go for stages, had to perform as the master domestique, also in the mountains. And he made stupid attacks from the start. After the Tour, he was totally demolished and couldn't perform at the highest level in august and september. He was still strong, but missed the victories in the olympics and the worlds.
I don't think Van Aert will perform better in march and april. But, not participating at the Tour, but only going for stages in the Giro (in may), he wil be stronger in Paris (olympics) and during the worlds (TT and road).
 
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shadowrider said:
MvdP did the same CX-season last year. He was better in Flanders, equal in Roubaix and better at the worlds than Van Aert. The problem with Van Aert always was his devastating Tour. Year after year he had to go for stages, had to perform as the master domestique, also in the mountains. And he made stupid attacks from the start. After the Tour, he was totally demolished and couldn't perform at the highest level in august and september. He was still strong, but missed the victories in the olympics and the worlds.
I don't think Van Aert will perform better in march and april. But, not participating at the Tour, but only going for stages in the Giro (in may), he wil be stronger in Paris (olympics) and during the worlds (TT and road).
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I know this isn't the Wout van Aert thread, though Wout conversation is inevitable here. So, what is the reason for Wout's "down" Tour in 2023? He didn't win a stage, and I can't remember as many big moments in a supporting role as in previous tours. Was it just about the new kid on the way? Or just a down season overall?

I have a hard time with the latter explanation given his podiums at MSR, Roubaix, and win at E3. Gifted Gent-Wevelgem to a teammate. Even in San Remo you could argue (though I wouldn't) that if he let MVDP close the gap late on the Poggio, he could have won. At Worlds he was clearly second best to Mathieu, but at any other point in the season? Not so sure.

With a bit of luck in Roubaix, 2023 could have been Wout's best spring ever. (His previous best "spring classics" campaign was arguably in late summer/fall 2020).
 
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Sciatic

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noob said:
NSFW

Why oh why did this happen? :eek:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1743268584002847156
View: https://twitter.com/CamachoPamina/status/1743268584002847156

https://twitter.com/x/status/1743239695511798132
View: https://twitter.com/JPEGMVDP/status/1743239695511798132
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If this was during the World’s it was widely known and much discussed at the time—MVDP had to go so bad he knocked on someone’s door and asked if he could use the WC. But the photographer could have given him a little more privacy.
 
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senna6541

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jono said:
I do think this is true, but throwing MTB into the mix as well pushes Mathieu to the edge of what's possible, and has resulted in him messing up a good chunk of two seasons of his racing prime (Tokyo crash and subsequent back issues).
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Agreed. The level is just way too high on the road and on the mtb. He had his chance to win all three in one year this year and missed it. But even the best best bike handler in the world can blow a routine off-camber and be out of the race (after trying to roll a 90 degree unexpected cliff in the Olympics)...My guess is that he does get all three in his career though.
 
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senna6541

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I think Wout will be fine on the road. We'll have to see how things go, but my guess is he gets Roubaix this year. And without Pogi forcing the race at Flanders he'll have a better shot there too if something goes wrong for MVDP. As for CX, when MVDP is fully healthy he is a level above. The last two years have been an anomaly with MVDP's health issues. So, if you want a competitive CX season you basically need a compromised MVDP. I would rather watch what we are seeing now - a literal genius doing stuff no other human being in the world can do - similar to Ayrton Senna in F1 in it's heyday in the mid '80's to early 90's.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG0p9TS1zXg&t=20s
 
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