Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Peyroteo94]

Nah, that's Rogla.
Yes, he raced only 1 GT race each year, until now. But he raced multiple one day and one week races each year.

No, it is not Roglic. Pogi would beat him easily in any one week stage race at this point in his career

 

[Balthazar]

Reading the forum for a while now but this is my first post. The discussion here annoys me and I know why. I have watched the big races for years now but only started following it to the extent I do now because of Mvdp and Pogi. I started watching cyclocross because of Mathieu, I started watching 1 week races because of Tadej. Obviously the course is going to decide who has the advantage, its always been that way. Tadej is an absolute phenom and can win pretty much any race he enters. Mathieu is the most explosive rider I have ever seen and almost unbeatable on a course like Glasgow or Flanders. By racing against eachother they have raised the level of one day races as a whole. Watching them destroy entire fields not by using their teammates, but just by attacking themselves, is not normal. They are both generational talents and I am sure looking back they will both get the praise they deserve.

 

[Berniece]

Whatabout Lombardia and LBL?
Or Strade?

Strade I don’t count because the Strade they all rode MVDP won. Lombardia is at the end of the season, Pogacar barely has any opposition there. Last year his biggest competitor fell during the race and had a difficult build up to it. LBL Pogacar only won in a sprint, I wouldn’t call that as impressive as his De Ronde victory for example

 

[AmRacer]

No, it is not Roglic. Pogi would beat him easily in any one week stage race at this point in his career

But we are talking the last couple of years.
I however agree Pogi would beat Rogla this year.

 

[AmRacer]

Strade I don’t count because the Strade they all rode MVDP won. Lombardia is at the end of the season, Pogacar barely has any opposition there. Last year his biggest competitor fell during the race and had a difficult build up to it. LBL Pogacar only won in a sprint, I wouldn’t call that as impressive as his De Ronde victory for example

They are still big one day races.
Poggi beat MvdP this MSR.

 

[Berniece]

They are still big one day races.
Poggi beat MvdP this MSR.

Are we counting random positions in the ranking now? Pogacar beat MVDP, because MVDP as the class act he is, rode for his teammate

 

[Bolder]

I just disagree. Also the way MVDP won those races is more impressive than Pogacar in De Ronde. WC 2min ahead, and MSR a solo finish. I’m more than happy to give Pogacar the #2 spot in the one day race ranking, but imo MVDP is #1. Personal ranking of course so you can see it differently, I don’t think we’ll get to agreement.

I'd say each can dominate their specialties, but in races where they overlap, it's a tossup (MvdP winning MSR/Pog in Flanders).

I find MvdP the most exciting rider in the peloton. You just can't not watch him when he's near the front.

 

[Salvarani]

Reading the forum for a while now but this is my first post. The discussion here annoys me and I know why. I have watched the big races for years now but only started following it to the extent I do now because of Mvdp and Pogi. I started watching cyclocross because of Mathieu, I started watching 1 week races because of Tadej. Obviously the course is going to decide who has the advantage, its always been that way. Tadej is an absolute phenom and can win pretty much any race he enters. Mathieu is the most explosive rider I have ever seen and almost unbeatable on a course like Glasgow or Flanders. By racing against eachother they have raised the level of one day races as a whole. Watching them destroy entire fields not by using their teammates, but just by attacking themselves, is not normal. They are both generational talents and I am sure looking back they will both get the praise they deserve.

Great first post.

MVDP and POG are two legends of the sport already.

 

[stonerider]

So MVP is in good shape. Will he ride LBL?

Just because MvdP is in great shape now doesn't mean he will be in great shape for LBL. His form may take a dive after competing in Flanders and PR. It's hard for most to hold top form for over a month. He was already riding well at MSR as being the only one who could follow Pog up the Poggio.

 

[Blanco]

Strade I don’t count because the Strade they all rode MVDP won. Lombardia is at the end of the season, Pogacar barely has any opposition there. Last year his biggest competitor fell during the race and had a difficult build up to it. LBL Pogacar only won in a sprint, I wouldn’t call that as impressive as his De Ronde victory for example

No. His biggest competitor came 3rd last year

 

[shadowrider]

At this moment of the season, and considering the previous seasons, one could establish there is one nr. 1 allrounder : Pogacar. Followed at a distance by VDP. Equal on flat and steep short hills, equal in punch. But not comparable on long climbs and GTs. Then Van Aert, Evenepoel and Roglic follow. All three are good on short climbs. Van Aert better on cobblestone climbing and cobblestone sections. Roglic and Evenepoel better on longer climbs and GT's.

Vingegaard doesn't really belong in that list. Although at the same level as Pogacar on long climbs and GTs, but completely absent on one-day races. As long as Vingegaard (already 27) does not participate in classics and monuments, we cannot judge him.

I continue to find it strange that Vingegaard does not even participate in one-day races such as the Flèche Wallonne, Liège, Amstel Gold Race or Lombardia.

 

[Berniece]

At this moment of the season, and considering the previous seasons, one could establish there is one nr. 1 allrounder : Pogacar. Followed at a distance by VDP. Equal on flat and steep short hills, equal in punch. But not comparable on long climbs and GTs. Then Van Aert, Evenepoel and Roglic follow. All three are good on short climbs. Van Aert better on cobblestone climbing and cobblestone sections. Roglic and Evenepoel better on longer climbs and GT's.

Vingegaard doesn't really belong in that list. Although at the same level as Pogacar on long climbs and GTs, but completely absent on one-day races. As long as Vingegaard (already 27) does not participate in classics and monuments, we cannot judge him.

I continue to find it strange that Vingegaard does not even participate in one-day races such as the Flèche Wallonne, Liège, Amstel Gold Race or Lombardia.

He tried Lombardia in 2022, it didn't go well

 

[mike8711]

Do you think MvDP will want to win tomorrow or will he go to Jasper?

 

[Blanco]

Do you think MvDP will want to win tomorrow or will he go to Jasper?

I think he won't push that much. He will keep an eye on Philipsen, where he is and how he feels. If he's in contention, I think Mathieu will simply control things for him. On the other hand, if he's not that close, and Van Der Poel is in a group that suits him, he will go for the win.
I don't expect another solo. He can do it of course, but I simply think he doesn't want to push that much.

 

[Blanco]

At this moment of the season, and considering the previous seasons, one could establish there is one nr. 1 allrounder : Pogacar. Followed at a distance by VDP. Equal on flat and steep short hills, equal in punch. But not comparable on long climbs and GTs. Then Van Aert, Evenepoel and Roglic follow. All three are good on short climbs. Van Aert better on cobblestone climbing and cobblestone sections. Roglic and Evenepoel better on longer climbs and GT's.

Vingegaard doesn't really belong in that list. Although at the same level as Pogacar on long climbs and GTs, but completely absent on one-day races. As long as Vingegaard (already 27) does not participate in classics and monuments, we cannot judge him.

I continue to find it strange that Vingegaard does not even participate in one-day races such as the Flèche Wallonne, Liège, Amstel Gold Race or Lombardia.

Considering previous season:

Classics riders:
1.Van Der Poel
2.Pogacar
3.
4.
5.Evenepoel
6.
7.
8.
9.Van Aert
10.Pedersen

 

[shadowrider]

He tried Lombardia in 2022, it didn't go well

The fact is that the dynamics are different in a hard and long oneday race compared to one or more stages in a GT. Is that the reason ? Teams and riders go all out in a oneday race. Now I indeed don't see Vingegaard performing in nervous spring races in Flanders, Roubaix or the Amstel. But he should still be able to perform in Liège, the Canadian races, at Lombardia, etc. It's all in his head, I think.

 

[shadowrider]

Considering previous season:

Classics riders:
1.Van Der Poel
2.Pogacar
3.
4.
5.Evenepoel
6.
7.
8.
9.Van Aert
10.Pedersen

Please feel free to fill in the missing names in place 3, 4, 6, 7, 8. Not only considering last season, but considering the last four seasons and the ungoing season.

 

[Blanco]

Please feel free to fill in the missing names in place 3, 4, 6, 7, 8. Not only considering last season, but considering the last four seasons and the ungoing season.

There's no missing names.
There's just big differences in the quality level of the riders.

 

[Oldermanish]

Exactly! Not for the faint of heart and, might I add, many WTFs and OMGs

That's just the jostling conversation before the start!

 

[Ripper]

That's just the jostling conversation before the start!

I'm talking about the thoughts going through my head during a race!

 

[Slavique Nuke]

There's no missing names.
There's just big differences in the quality level of the riders.

Pedersen is not just one level worse than WvA and I'd even put Philipsen ahead of him.

 

[jmdirt]

Another great race MvdP!

 

[Blanco]

Pedersen is not just one level worse than WvA and I'd even put Philipsen ahead of him.

Are you sure?

 

[Slavique Nuke]

Are you sure?

Yeah, I'm 100% sure

Edit: After seeing your 'like' farming. Can one of you guys tell me why my comment became inaccurate after today's race?

I consider WvA to be more than one level better than Pedersen as a one-day rider. The results speak for themselves, don't they? https://www.procyclingstats.com/rid...an-aert&id2=mads-pedersen&s=same-race-results

The reason I think Philipsen is a better one-day rider is because he is more likely to win a big race than Pedersen. Pedersen is a similar rider to MvdP and WvA, only weaker. Therefore it is difficult for him to win big races, Monuments... Philipsen has a big advantage, speed, and if the situation favours him he can win a lot of big races. See San Remo and he is a Monument winner.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah, I'm 100% sure

yeah, me too.

GW is, as strange as it sounds, one of the hardest for VDP to win. too little hills, too many flats in between where tactical games are being played.
He had to do too much today and Pedersen in a 1vs1 sprint after such a course is more likely to win.

And VDP is unlikely to win a group sprint the way van Aert did in 2021.