Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Oldermanish]

Poggi can

...but hasn't yet. Would, should, could aren't the same as done it.
MvP has recent WC in cylocross and that little one from WRR, MSR, PR and a few others. Tadej attended some of those events and probably won't do others so they'll both be great. OK?

 

[Barkintheeye]

That is just a weird sentiment that he should look elsewhere because winning the biggest races in the sport is somehow old hat and he needs more challenges.

Imagine Argentina saying “we’re going to focus our entire national team effort solely on winning Copa Americana instead of the next World Cup because we’ve already won the WC so it’s not enough of challenge to just continue trying to win that.”

Yes and no. What’s more important? Winning the Olympics or the World Championships, Ronde or Paris-Roubaix, MSR or Liege?

I am pretty sure that for Van der Poel it matters what he has already accomplished and what could be next. In this sense the Olympics and the WC are the next two major goals most likely. Should that happen then maybe another (final) win in WC CX and another MSR. Then it gets interesting. RVV x4 and PR x3 or maybe instead one win at LBL? I think he would trade that for lots.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

tbh i think ironically after LBL he is likely to skip it in the future. Needs to lose weight to win and it's too big of a risk.

Just keep winning rvv/pr, maybe some MSRs. For novelties he could try gt stages, world champs (when course fits him), plouay, paris tours etc

 

[Hugh Januss]

tbh i think ironically after LBL he is likely to skip it in the future. Needs to lose weight to win and it's too big of a risk.

Just keep winning rvv/pr, maybe some MSRs. For novelties he could try gt stages, world champs (when course fits him), plouay, paris tours etc

I think he can win it in the future. Pogacar had a perfect race and everything went to plan. VdP was done before La Redoute after chasing for 30k's back from the crash, he was shuffled out of position before Pogacar ever attacked. Had he been in Carapaz's position when Pogacar attacked it would have been a different story. A little less work in the weeks before, at least don't do Amstel Gold, and the tables could be turned, especially if Pogacar has the problems instead of himself.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think he can win it in the future. Pogacar had a perfect race and everything went to plan. VdP was done before La Redoute after chasing for 30k's back from the crash, he was shuffled out of position before Pogacar ever attacked. Had he been in Carapaz's position when Pogacar attacked it would have been a different story. A little less work in the weeks before, at least don't do Amstel Gold, and the tables could be turned, especially if Pogacar has the problems instead of himself.

Sounds good on paper, but there's also Remco who is almost at the level of Pogi in this race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think he can win it in the future. Pogacar had a perfect race and everything went to plan. VdP was done before La Redoute after chasing for 30k's back from the crash, he was shuffled out of position before Pogacar ever attacked. Had he been in Carapaz's position when Pogacar attacked it would have been a different story. A little less work in the weeks before, at least don't do Amstel Gold, and the tables could be turned, especially if Pogacar has the problems instead of himself.

He did none of the chasing himself. The only reason he managed to get on the podium, was because everybody already knew Pogacar was gone, hence so was the incentive. If there is no Pogacar, no Evenepoel, i doubt it would become easier for him, because then guys like Carapaz, Van Gils, Vlasov, Vansevenant, Bardet, Pidcock... they all know they can and need to get rid of him because they can't be taking him to the finish.

But this is in a universe where Evenepoel and Pogacar don't compete or crash out both. He literally has 0 chance against them.

 

[hayneplane]

I think he can win it in the future. Pogacar had a perfect race and everything went to plan. VdP was done before La Redoute after chasing for 30k's back from the crash, he was shuffled out of position before Pogacar ever attacked. Had he been in Carapaz's position when Pogacar attacked it would have been a different story. A little less work in the weeks before, at least don't do Amstel Gold, and the tables could be turned, especially if Pogacar has the problems instead of himself.

He didn’t do much chasing back unlike Pidcock and Gregoire who tried to cross the gap in a small group. MVDP rarely put his nose in the wind while in the chasing pack so, other than adding to the mental stress, it didn’t take much out of him at all.

 

[Nick2413]

He did none of the chasing himself. The only reason he managed to get on the podium, was because everybody already knew Pogacar was gone, hence so was the incentive. If there is no Pogacar, no Evenepoel, i doubt it would become easier for him, because then guys like Carapaz, Van Gils, Vlasov, Vansevenant, Bardet, Pidcock... they all know they can and need to get rid of him because they can't be taking him to the finish.

But this is in a universe where Evenepoel and Pogacar don't compete or crash out both. He literally has 0 chance against them.

That benefited him tremendously. 10 guys were probably good enough to drop him if they needed to.

 

[gregrowlerson]

tbh i think ironically after LBL he is likely to skip it in the future. Needs to lose weight to win and it's too big of a risk.

Just keep winning rvv/pr, maybe some MSRs. For novelties he could try gt stages, world champs (when course fits him), plouay, paris tours etc

This. It's not worth sacrificing a whole season of chances to win those other monuments again, for a 10% chance that he can then climb with Tadej and Remco in the hilly monuments.

 

[Oldermanish]

He did none of the chasing himself. The only reason he managed to get on the podium, was because everybody already knew Pogacar was gone, hence so was the incentive. If there is no Pogacar, no Evenepoel, i doubt it would become easier for him, because then guys like Carapaz, Van Gils, Vlasov, Vansevenant, Bardet, Pidcock... they all know they can and need to get rid of him because they can't be taking him to the finish.

But this is in a universe where Evenepoel and Pogacar don't compete or crash out both. He literally has 0 chance against them.

I wouldn't go that far. His WCRR effort was in a brutally hard contest and he managed that scenario spectacularly. Most of the other big names had no catastrophic failures or mishaps but got beat on strength and tactics. Never say never for a guy like MvP. Except the Tour; he'd need to lose a limb's worth of weight to manage it and waste a perfectly dominant career in the attempt.

 

[senna6541]

Poggi can

Pogi can do a lot. But even he is susceptible to getting utterly destroyed by MVDP on a course that tilts toward MVDP's strengths - see Glasgow and MVDP's attack. Pogi doesn't even look like he's the same species as MVDP...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I wouldn't go that far. His WCRR effort was in a brutally hard contest and he managed that scenario spectacularly. Most of the other big names had no catastrophic failures or mishaps but got beat on strength and tactics. Never say never for a guy like MvP. Except the Tour; he'd need to lose a limb's worth of weight to manage it and waste a perfectly dominant career in the attempt.

I'm sorry, are you comparing a recurring 200 meter climb, which is basically tailormade for MvdP, to multiple climbs between 1.5 and 4.5 km? Against Evenepoel and Pogacar, he has zero point zero zero zero chance unless he drops 5 to 10kg. Take it to the bank.

 

[senna6541]

I'm sorry, are you comparing a recurring 200 meter climb, which is basically tailormade for MvdP, to multiple climbs between 1.5 and 4.5 km? Against Evenepoel and Pogacar, he has zero point zero zero zero chance unless he drops 5 to 10kg. Take it to the bank.

Agreed, and why would he ever want to do that? Seems like a helluva more fun to be able just smash the best guys in the world in a matter of 20 seconds. And put race winning seconds into guys on high speed corners, technical sections, etc. The life of GC/climber type doesn't sound too fun in comparison. I'm guessing MVPD is going to be all in for Olympic road gold. That would add a little something to the palmares. Needs to get back on the MTB too - at least one World Championship.

 

[Oldermanish]

Agreed, and why would he ever want to do that? Seems like a helluva more fun to be able just smash the best guys in the world in a matter of 20 seconds. And put race winning seconds into guys on high speed corners, technical sections, etc. The life of GC/climber type doesn't sound too fun in comparison. I'm guessing MVPD is going to be all in for Olympic road gold. That would add a little something to the palmares. Needs to get back on the MTB too - at least one World Championship.

That was my point made in several endorsements for MvP as among the top riders in the WORLD.

 

[Oldermanish]

I'm sorry, are you comparing a recurring 200 meter climb, which is basically tailormade for MvdP, to multiple climbs between 1.5 and 4.5 km? Against Evenepoel and Pogacar, he has zero point zero zero zero chance unless he drops 5 to 10kg. Take it to the bank.

Like I said.....
And yes; I can compare the effort he made in World's to an effort like that. Overall wattage output for the geeks that love numbers could validate the "scientific" reality of the possibility. He'd have to overcome the physics of that and shitcan his legacy in the process. The Unless is the qualifier.
Geraint Thomas was a track points and pursuit racer. He won the Tour.

 

[Kwaremonster]

For him to add LBL to his palmares would be incredible, but it's so hard and so much needs to go his way. I can't see him seriously consider that at the moment.

Especially when there so much nice things he can win that are in his reach. I think he could do with some more stage victories in the tour. They are not the ultimate thing, but just the one is a bit meh for a rider of his calibre. The Olympic road race title. Then there are some incredible records in his reach: record amount of cyclo-cross world titles, record amount of Tour of Flanders titles, no record but equalling Boonen and Cancellara in monument victories..

I thinkhe should and will focus on those kind of races.

 

[Bolder]

For him to add LBL to his palmares would be incredible, but it's so hard and so much needs to go his way. I can't see him seriously consider that at the moment.

Especially when there so much nice things he can win that are in his reach. I think he could do with some more stage victories in the tour. They are not the ultimate thing, but just the one is a bit meh for a rider of his calibre. The Olympic road race title. Then there are some incredible records in his reach: record amount of cyclo-cross world titles, record amount of Tour of Flanders titles, no record but equalling Boonen and Cancellara in monument victories..

I thinkhe should and will focus on those kind of races.

Tour stages, especially those that favor him, are hard to win unless you’re a sprinter or GC favorite. Too many variables to control. I’d personally like to see him focus on vtt for a whole season. The XCO races this year have been super competitive.

 

[stonerider]

Geraint Thomas was a track points and pursuit racer. He won the Tour.

Thomas is only good for one race per year as he's chasing a GT win. He looks terrible the rest of the season. Who would want MvdP to sacrifice the rest of the year to only come good for one race? I enjoy seeing him jet in for one day races that suit his strengths and smashing people from the early spring classics to the Christmas period of CX.

 

[AmRacer]

Thomas is only good for one race per year as he's chasing a GT win. He looks terrible the rest of the season. Who would want MvdP to sacrifice the rest of the year to only come good for one race? I enjoy seeing him jet in for one day races that suit his strengths and smashing people from the early spring classics to the Christmas period of CX.

So do you think the Spring Classics 2024 season was great then?

 

[jaylew]

tbh i think ironically after LBL he is likely to skip it in the future. Needs to lose weight to win and it's too big of a risk.

Just keep winning rvv/pr, maybe some MSRs. For novelties he could try gt stages, world champs (when course fits him), plouay, paris tours etc

I tend to agree with this. On the harder end, he'll almost certainly try to win Amstel again and probably Strade but I wouldn't be too surprised if he didn't go back to Liége. In addition to the stuff you mentioned maybe he'll try to get some of the cobbled races he hasn't won yet. I think at some point, he'll stop racing cross and race opening weekend, for example.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I tend to agree with this. On the harder end, he'll almost certainly try to win Amstel again and probably Strade but I wouldn't be too surprised if he didn't go back to Liége. In addition to the stuff you mentioned maybe he'll try to get some of the cobbled races he hasn't won yet. I think at some point, he'll stop racing cross and race opening weekend, for example.

its also just.. historically he's won one day races mostly up to 2500 altitude meters. With the exception of Amstel and Glasgow basically. 4000 altitude meters + is just too much. Think worlds is gonna be too much in the same way. But olympics is perfect

 

[senna6541]

I still claim that the last lap at Benidorm '23 are among the biggest minutes in MVDP's career. Literally seemed like his career was at a crossroads. Pulls off that insane pass on Wout and goes way deep for the win. All up since then. Unbelievable race to watch too, with stellar commentary, especially from Jeremy Powers.

 

[Kwaremonster]

I still claim that the last lap at Benidorm '23 are among the biggest minutes in MVDP's career. Literally seemed like his career was at a crossroads. Pulls off that insane pass on Wout and goes way deep for the win. All up since then. Unbelievable race to watch too, with stellar commentary, especially from Jeremy Powers.

I'll see if I can rematch that one.

 

[Keldergoat]

its also just.. historically he's won one day races mostly up to 2500 altitude meters. With the exception of Amstel and Glasgow basically. 4000 altitude meters + is just too much. Think worlds is gonna be too much in the same way. But olympics is perfect

Isn't Strade Bianche also quite above 2500 am?

 

[Barkintheeye]

Isn't Strade Bianche also quite above 2500 am?

A bit unclear but it seems like the 2021 version was 184 km with 3072 alt mtrs. This year’s SB was longer and with more am.