Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Balthazar]

MVDP isn't the most powerful rider, WVA is more powerful in CX. MVDP is indeed gifted more technically. Pidcock is also better technically than Pogacar, just like WVA and MVDP are.

I think Pogacar wins in Strade because of the hills, not because of his technical prowess. Although he is also technically very good, much better than most in the peloton.

Wout isn't more powerful than Mathieu in CX. He was on occasion but only on top form and only on specific circuits that favour longer sustained efforts. CX rewards raw power and technique, which is why Mathieu is better at it. Saying Wout is more powerful than Mathieu makes no sense when I can make an hour long montage of Mathieu beating him.

 

[Peyroteo94]

MVDP isn't the most powerful rider, WVA is more powerful in CX. MVDP is indeed gifted more technically. Pidcock is also better technically than Pogacar, just like WVA and MVDP are.

I think Pogacar wins in Strade because of the hills, not because of his technical prowess. Although he is also technically very good, much better than most in the peloton.

Recently, we had a gravel stage in the Tour and Pogacar was the strongest (both WVA and MVP were nowhere to be found). I find WVA very overrated technically to be honest due to his multiple crashes (and most of them were alone). But like I said Pogi's success in these type of stages/classics are a combination of power and technique. His SB results explain this, he won last year due to his power and 3 years ago, he won with an attack downhill.

 

[Berniece]

Recently, we had a gravel stage in the Tour and Pogacar was the strongest (both WVA and MVP were nowhere to be found). I find WVA very overrated technically to be honest due to his multiple crashes (and most of them were alone). But like I said his success in these type of stages/classics are a combination of power and technique. His SB results explain this, he won last year due to his power and 3 years ago, he won with an attack downhill.

MVDP literally finished before Pogacar that stage. He attacked with others 43km to go. Not sure what you expected from WVA, he wasn't in shape during that TDF, he finished 1min50s behind Evenepoel in the ITT. Should tell you enough about his form.

 

[tobydawq]

Now Wielerflits say he'll probably do Le Samyn tomorrow...

 

[Berniece]

Wout isn't more powerful than Mathieu in CX. He was on occasion but only on top form and only on specific circuits that favour longer sustained efforts. CX rewards raw power and technique, which is why Mathieu is better at it. Saying Wout is more powerful than Mathieu makes no sense when I can make an hour long montage of Mathieu beating him.

Just because Mathieu is the better CX rider, doesn't mean he is the most powerful. When Van Aert wins it's due to being more powerful, and the race suiting those type of riders. That's also why Van Aert is the better time-trialist, and sprinter. Because he has more power.

 

[Peyroteo94]

MVDP literally finished before Pogacar that stage. He attacked with others 43km to go. Not sure what you expected from WVA, he wasn't in shape during that TDF, he finished 1min50s behind Evenepoel in the ITT. Should tell you enough about his form.

And? He was really underwhelming, specially since he was the top favourite to win the stage.

 

[AmRacer]

Just because Mathieu is the better CX rider, doesn't mean he is the most powerful. When Van Aert wins it's due to being more powerful, and the race suiting those type of riders. That's also why Van Aert is the better time-trialist, and sprinter. Because he has more power.

Mathieu has never trained TT so we would never know how good he could be. Where do you get Wout is the better sprinter from?

 

[Balthazar]

And? He was really underwhelming, specially since he was the top favourite to win the stage.

Come on. Nobody is saying Mathieu is going to beat an inform Pog in the Strade, especially not on the new parcours. But everybody knows Mathieu is not a good grand tour rider so you shouldn't compare them with one day races.

 

[Didinho]

Now Wielerflits say he'll probably do Le Samyn tomorrow...

Confirmed on Sporza.

Makes it more likely he’s also doing Strade.

 

[Balthazar]

Just because Mathieu is the better CX rider, doesn't mean he is the most powerful. When Van Aert wins it's due to being more powerful, and the race suiting those type of riders. That's also why Van Aert is the better time-trialist, and sprinter. Because he has more power.

Yes it does mean Mathieu is more powerful. What do you think is the most important factor in dictating what makes you go faster around a cyclocross track or up Oude Kwaremont? Power.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Come on. Nobody is saying Mathieu is going to beat an inform Pog in the Strade, especially not on the new parcours. But everybody knows Mathieu is not a good grand tour rider so you shouldn't compare them with one day races.

I'm not asking him to win the Tour de France... But do you think it is not normal to expect MVP to perform in a stage tailormade for him? And it was in the first week?

 

[Balthazar]

I'm not asking him to win the Tour de France... But do you think it is not normal to expect MVP to perform in a stage tailormade for him? And it was in the first week?

It really isn't all that normal to be great one day racer and good in the grand tours as well. Pog is really the exception and Wout as well on a less extreme level. Although you could argue that it has cost Wout in the monuments.

 

[Berniece]

Mathieu has never trained TT so we would never know how good he could be. Where do you get Wout is the better sprinter from?

Ah yes, and Philipsen also never trained for a GT, so who knows how good he would be as a GT rider. Maybe better than Vingegaard.

And Wout is the better sprinter because he has won mass sprints than MVDP. But then again, Vingegaard also never really trained for that, so who knows maybe he can also be the best sprinter in the world.

 

[Peyroteo94]

It really isn't all that normal to be great one day racer and good in the grand tours as well. Pog is really the exception and Wout as well on a less extreme level. Although you could argue that it has cost Wout in the monuments.

I fully disagree with this. And do you even know what means to be good in GTs? It means being consistent and good for 3 weeks (21 stages), not softpedalling for 20 stages and win 1 stage.

 

[AmRacer]

Ah yes, and Philipsen also never trained for a GT, so who knows how good he would be as a GT rider. Maybe better than Vingegaard.

And Wout is the better sprinter because he has won mass sprints than MVDP. But then again, Vingegaard also never really trained for that, so who knows maybe he can also be the best sprinter in the world.

So you cannot draw any power conclusions from Wout compared with MvdP from TT's

 

[tobydawq]

Confirmed on Sporza.

Makes it more likely he’s also doing Strade.

He didn't hear last year it was a kutkoers?

Perhaps not, he doesn't strike me as the type who spends his time perusing cycling websites and social media.

 

[Berniece]

So you cannot draw any power conclusions from Wout compared with MvdP from TT's

Yes you can. I said that Wout is doing better at TT's and training for TT's because he has a better power output, it's one of his strengths.

 

[Balthazar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896549839904608739

 

[Berniece]

No mention of Strade

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Would be good if MVP took part in Strade making the field stronger. Maybe he will decide after his first race.

 

[James M]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896549839904608739

I doubt Strade myself but oh boy would I want it.

MvdP 21 when he crushed peak Ala up Piazza del Campo was art, that and his Amstel win are two of my personal fav all time legendary wins, his PR performance of last year is up there aswell for other reasons.

The more MvdP we get the better.

 

[jono]

I'm not asking him to win the Tour de France... But do you think it is not normal to expect MVP to perform in a stage tailormade for him? And it was in the first week?

MVDP himself doesn't care to perform in the Tour de France. He certainly hasn't aimed to be at his peak for that race since 2021.

Ah yes, and Philipsen also never trained for a GT, so who knows how good he would be as a GT rider. Maybe better than Vingegaard.

And Wout is the better sprinter because he has won mass sprints than MVDP. But then again, Vingegaard also never really trained for that, so who knows maybe he can also be the best sprinter in the world.

Wout is obviously the better field sprinter and time trialist, though Mathieu does have a few notable H2H sprint victories against van Aert. Van der Poel is capable of a decent time trial when he has a reason to put in a decent effort (ie: 2nd place in the pink jersey in 2022, ahead of guys like Dumoulin and Foss, 5th pace wearing yellow and within a half second of Wout and behind only Pogacar, Kung, and Vingegaard in 2021).

The evidence is there that he could be a consistent top 10 TT guy, but I doubt he is motivated to achieve that in his career, and he'd never be competing with guys like Evenepoel and Ganna like Wout occasionally can (could?).

Riding Le Samyn does make a Strade appearance more likely. I thought this would be Philipsen leadout duty but looks like he will be leader. At Strade in his 3 appearances he has alternated 15th - 1st - 15th so maybe he is due.

 

[Keldergoat]

Wasn't Del Grosso initially also on the short list? With that startlist, and that route MvdP can show us some fun stuff tomorrow. Wasn't this the race in 2019 when he stayed in front of a full peloton on his own?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

gotta put a cap on "Wva is more powerful than MvdP".

Not only in CX but in most of their road "duels" MVDP has largely crushed Van Aert, moreso in the latter years. Not so much in 2019-2022 when they seemed more equal. But in 2023/2024 it became so bad to the point that Van Aert now races defensively if VDP is in the race. Because if he rides with him he gets crushed/dropped time and time again.

Want to know why? Simple... VDP is more powerful. He has a bit of extra left in those 250km+ finales. Wout doesn't have as many bullets in the tank.

 

[Peyroteo94]

gotta put a cap on "Wva is more powerful than MvdP".

Not only in CX but in most of their road "duels" MVDP has largely crushed Van Aert, moreso in the latter years. Not so much in 2019-2022 when they seemed more equal. But in 2023/2024 it became so bad to the point that Van Aert now races defensively if VDP is in the race. Because if he rides with him he gets crushed/dropped time and time again.

Want to know why? Simple... VDP is more powerful. He has a bit of extra left in those 250km+ finales. Wout doesn't have as many bullets in the tank.

I fully agree.