Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Coffeeplanter]

He doesn't stand a chance in Siena anyway.

 

[Red Rick]

Bingo was just typing it, you also have E3 (granted WVA crashed doubt he wasmuch effected but not for me to say) but last years I dont think its unreasonable to say he has developed and this part is def apart of it. He has a sole mission in every race vs Wva and that is to make it as hard as possible, and thats it.

His TT ceiling is just a fun what if scenario (he openly stated he dont care at all, hardly been in a windtunnel etc) but he has more power and his aerobic capacity is bigger, if he wanted I think he would have a higher ceiling than Wva there not that im sure neither will we ever get to know it.

I do think the greater aerobic power shows itself in the grupetto rides he puts in any time climbs go over 10 minutes.

 

[Berniece]

No, wrong. It was 24 and were obviously talking about when MvdP/Wva rode much of the final solo with Wva trying to close the gap.

You are right, for some reason I thought WVA was already out before the E3.

Not that it has anything to do with power. Ganna also has more power than WVA and MVDP. Length of the race influences different riders, in different ways. I'm a huge MVDP fan, but that doesn't mean I can't say that someone else might be better in something than him.

 

[E_F_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1896617900334805075

View: https://x.com/laflammerouge16/status/1896617900334805075


Roodhooft confirms no Strade for MVDP.

Due to bad weather in Calpe??? "Flandrien" my ***!!

 

[Peyroteo94]

When we talk about power, are we talking about absolute power, relative power, power during 20 seconds, 5 minutes, one hour?

 

[kingjr]

Wout can ride more w/kg consistently for longer, I think that's what's meant. Shorter, more intense efforts favour vdP as they accumulate. Glasgow was the most extreme example of this. It was clear that the course suits him, but I was still astonished at just how big the difference in strength was in the end.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Samyn is a better race than strade bianche

 

[Krzysztof_O]

When we talk about power, are we talking about absolute power, relative power, power during 20 seconds, 5 minutes, one hour?

WVA may be more powerful in a standalone 30-60 minute effort (i.e. an ITT), yes. But his ITT advantage could be also associated with better aerodynamics.

OTOH looking at some of MVP's solos (i.e. Roubaix or WC'23) I would think that his power after 5 hours of racing can be actually bigger than Wout's, at least nowadays (in 2021-2022 Wout was a monster with immense power, as shown by his climbing performances and large weight).

 

[AmRacer]

WVA may be more powerful in a standalone 30-60 minute effort (i.e. an ITT), yes. But his ITT advantage could be also associated with better aerodynamics.

OTOH looking at some of MVP's solos (i.e. Roubaix or WC'23) I would think that his power after 5 hours of racing can be actually bigger than Wout's, at least nowadays (in 2021-2022 Wout was a monster with immense power, as shown by his climbing performances and large weight).

Wout's ITT advantage would be he has trained ITT for many years, while Mathieu hasn't.

 

[Unchained]

Tomorrow will be MVDP's first non-TT race in an Alpecin jersey in nearly 600 days.

Hey could you explain or rewrite this.. So he has only raced Time Trials for @600 days? Not sure I understand

 

[Tim Cahill]

Hey could you explain or rewrite this.. So he has only raced Time Trials for @600 days? Not sure I understand

I think he means VDP won the WCRR on 06/08/2023 and was in rainbows until now.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Wout's ITT advantage would be he has trained ITT for many years, while Mathieu hasn't.

So Wout is more power-efficient in given aerodynamic positions (which was practised for years) but WVA vs MVP power debate is not easy to decide. I tend to think Wout is more powerful in standalone efforts (like ITT and CX) while MVP is better at the end of long one-day races nowadays. Climbing is another interesting factor: Wout used to have considerable advantage (which would suggest he can be more powerful after longer efforts as well).

 

[hayneplane]

Samyn is a better race than strade bianche

Unironically Le Samyn is actually a really nice race that should be a 1.pro not a 1.1 in the UCI categories.

 

[jono]

Hey could you explain or rewrite this.. So he has only raced Time Trials for @600 days? Not sure I understand

He has not raced in a regular Alpecin jersey since July 2023. He has only raced in rainbow stripes since then.

The one exception is any TT stages since July 2023, in which he would not have been wearing the World Champions jersey.

 

[jono]

Samyn is a better race than strade bianche

Except for the start list.

 

[Red Rick]

So Wout is more power-efficient in given aerodynamic positions (which was practised for years) but WVA vs MVP power debate is not easy to decide. I tend to think Wout is more powerful in standalone efforts (like ITT and CX) while MVP is better at the end of long one-day races nowadays. Climbing is another interesting factor: Wout used to have considerable advantage (which would suggest he can be more powerful after longer efforts as well).

Climbing difference already tells you Van Aert is flat out the bigger oxygen user.

CX and specific races like RvV and Glasgow show MvdP is better at anaerobic intervals, recovery and maybe fat oxidation.

 

[KZD]

Wout can ride more w/kg consistently for longer, I think that's what's meant. Shorter, more intense efforts favour vdP as they accumulate. Glasgow was the most extreme example of this. It was clear that the course suits him, but I was still astonished at just how big the difference in strength was in the end.

I agree that Wout's w/kg are better but the gap is not as big as some think, the thing is that Van Aert gets himself into a better shape for Grand Tours than Van der Poel which is where these efforts are done more often. Plus in the 2022 Giro, Van der Poel did some pretty decent efforts on mountain stages.

As for TTs, Visma's equipment is likely better than the Alpecin's one, which is also a factor on why Van Aert does better.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Climbing difference already tells you Van Aert is flat out the bigger oxygen user.

CX and specific races like RvV and Glasgow show MvdP is better at anaerobic intervals, recovery and maybe fat oxidation.

Yeah, better recovery from intense anaerobic efforts + fat oxidation would explain better power at the end of long classics with interval efforts. As for pure anaerobic threshold power (without previous efforts) it seems Wout has more of it indeed.

 

[jono]

Yeah, better recovery from intense anaerobic efforts + fat oxidation would explain better power at the end of long classics with interval efforts. As for pure anaerobic threshold power (without previous efforts) it seems Wout has more of it indeed.

I wonder how they would compare in a long race without a large number of anaerobic efforts. Something like Unbound Gravel, for example.

 

[Unchained]

He has not raced in a regular Alpecin jersey since July 2023. He has only raced in rainbow stripes since then.

The one exception is any TT stages since July 2023, in which he would not have been wearing the World Champions jersey.

Thanks for that explanation. So yes he has raced other than time trials, but the rainbow doesn't count.. On my 3rd 12 pack

 

[Coffeeplanter]

Except for the start list.

Startlists don’t make great races.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I wonder how they would compare in a long race without a large number of anaerobic efforts. Something like Unbound Gravel, for example.

I've read somewhere that Wout is more of a sugar burner, which could suggest that even during less intense efforts his power percentage resulting from glycolysis is higher than MVP's. This could affect him more during long classics, even with steady effort level. But it's all just speculation as we don't have detailed comparable data from both.

 

[Balthazar]

Always interesting to discuss the nuances of power output because it is such blanket term. Mathieu in an interview with Sporza at the start of the year said that power wise his best 30 min effort was in the E3 last year. At the end of the race on the stretch between the Tiegemberg and the finish line he averaged 460 watts.

I would guess that the gap that existed between Mathieu and Wout say 3-4 years ago in these kind of efforts, is no longer there.

He talks about his power output at 41:50.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

"Power is nothing without control" - a Pirelli advert from years ago.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Last E3 they rode against each other WVA won from MVDP and Pogi

that was not hte last e3, because last year they also raced eachother and VDP crushed everyone incl. WVA...who did crash stupidly, but only because he was desperate to get into VDP's wheel, after riding defensively the whole race. Ergo my point, he rides defensively vs VDP because he acknowledged the year before if he rides with VDP he gets crushed.

Also, 2 years ago he got dropped by Pogi and VDP on Kwaremont and only came back because of motos blocking Pogi's attack. He was the weakest of the three but also the fastest, so he won. But I wouldn't put that as a proof of him being more powerful or as strong, on the contrary. The proof was on the road