Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Red Rick]

I think Red Rick confused VO2max with Vlamax. Obviously high VO2max is very important to any kind of sustainable performances (from a few minutes to a few hours). High Vlamax indicates very strong anaerobic glycolysis, which is crucial to performances lasting i.e. a few dozens of seconds. As for Van Aert I didn't necessarily mean this but rather that his glycolysis contributes more at a moderate effort level (it's easily cleared by his aerobic engine but precious fuel is still used up).

I did.

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure I follow this? As I understand (relative) VO2 max is desirable for climbers and grand tour contenders (like Pogacar and Vingegaard). But Vlamax (maximum rate of lactate production) is a more desirable attribute for riders with superior anaerobic power but at the cost of a lower anaerobic threshold (like Wout and MVDP).

I messed up with VO2 max.

Still I don't think the tradeoff should be as big as it seems. Also, fairly specifically the recovery and repeats from these efforts. When really fresh MvdP doesn't really tend to drop everyone the first go around.

 

[jmdirt]

I guess that CX kept the cobwebs out of his legs this winter!

 

[DaLong]

I guess that CX kept the cobwebs out of his legs this winter!

That and all the skiing and golfing. That is to say I think his mind is also in a good place right now.

 

[MJR]

Impressive start to the year.

I think we're gonna see a pretty insane vdP this spring. He'll have to be if he wants to be able to best Pogacar at Flanders.

 

[proffate]

Not saying wva would have won, but the run in and sprint here is very different.

can't be that different if the same guy got 2nd on both courses

 

[kn0s]

can't be that different if the same guy got 2nd on both courses

The harder finish is literally what the race is know for.

 

[James M]

Not sure I follow this? As I understand (relative) VO2 max is desirable for climbers and grand tour contenders (like Pogacar and Vingegaard). But Vlamax (maximum rate of lactate production) is a more desirable attribute for riders with superior anaerobic power but at the cost of a lower anaerobic threshold (like Wout and MVDP).

Its also a difference in training methodologies they apply, both vlamax and VO2 can be targeted in training and developed through different training methods; since its speculation we dont know the impact of that to what extent either.

They apply both but MvdP for instance never trained VO2 like WVA to that extent, where training is focused that much on increasing the efficiency of the cardiovascular system to deliver and use oxygen more effectively.

MvdP's training is very much centered around long steady efforts of 65-85% of max heart rate or atleast on a pace where youre still able to maintan aerobic respiration.

 

[James M]

I messed up with VO2 max.

Still I don't think the tradeoff should be as big as it seems. Also, fairly specifically the recovery and repeats from these efforts. When really fresh MvdP doesn't really tend to drop everyone the first go around.

Lactate is a byproduct of anaerobic metabolism, when energy is produced without enough oxygen, its accumulation leads to fatigue. Thats it and why we see MvdP ride like a lunatic, often starts far out and with repeated attacks and 99% always the instigator to make it as hard as possible, since he knows he can generate more power while staying in a aerobic state in races vs Wva. Thats it.

 

[proffate]

The harder finish is literally what the race is know for.

wva is supposedly good at everything. If he were as good as his fans think he is, he'd be a favorite on every Belgian classic course. But he is not good, at least not now. There is no course in the world where he would excel at the moment.

 

[Unchained]

wva is supposedly good at everything. If he were as good as his fans think he is, he'd be a favorite on every Belgian classic course. But he is not good, at least not now. There is no course in the world where he would excel at the moment.

No opinion necessary.. Wout has green jersey, has cyclocross killings,has almost 50 wins ,can race to work or win..guy is quality ..his style is as important as results, races to win, aggressive, regardless

 

[Red Rick]

wva is supposedly good at everything. If he were as good as his fans think he is, he'd be a favorite on every Belgian classic course. But he is not good, at least not now. There is no course in the world where he would excel at the moment.

He actually is good at everything. The problem is he is the best at nothing.

 

[senna6541]

Pogi caught a break today. But he won't be able to deal with this MVDP at MSR, RVV and if he's smart he won't even try him at PR.

 

[dazaau]

Pogi caught a break today. But he won't be able to deal with this MVDP at MSR, RVV and if he's smart he won't even try him at PR.

He caught a lot of road rash... He did catch the break first though if that's what you mean, and then Pidcock while bleeding out.

Really looking forward to mvdp v Pog. Going to be epic.

 

[senna6541]

He caught a lot of road rash... He did catch the break first though if that's what you mean, and then Pidcock while bleeding out.

Really looking forward to mvdp v Pog. Going to be epic.

I mean he made a pretty bad technical mistake and was extremely lucky to have a relatively soft landing - especially given how skeletal he is looking these days. Here's to hoping MVDP get through TA crash free. Unfortunately, these days it's about hoping the biggest hitters actually make it to the biggest races healthy.

 

[jmdirt]

Its also a difference in training methodologies they apply, both vlamax and VO2 can be targeted in training and developed through different training methods; since its speculation we dont know the impact of that to what extent either.

They apply both but MvdP for instance never trained VO2 like WVA to that extent, where training is focused that much on increasing the efficiency of the cardiovascular system to deliver and use oxygen more effectively.

MvdP's training is very much centered around long steady efforts of 65-85% of max heart rate or atleast on a pace where youre still able to maintan aerobic respiration.

What inside info do you have?

Several 'generalities', and strangly used 'buzzers' for me here.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Wout subpar in early races and he gets tons of heat, but nobody mentions Mathieu...he lost to 19 other guys today, one of them being Ben Healey...in a sprint, that wasn't uphill. Maybe Mathieu won't be so dominant this spring. He surely isn't going to beat Teddy with form like that. Sh!t, Pidcock smoked him today, and he rode Strade on Sunday.

 

[yaco]

Wout subpar in early races and he gets tons of heat, but nobody mentions Mathieu...he lost to 19 other guys today, one of them being Ben Healey...in a sprint, that wasn't uphill. Maybe Mathieu won't be so dominant this spring. He surely isn't going to beat Teddy with form like that. Sh!t, Pidcock smoked him today, and he rode Strade on Sunday.

Did you watch the race? His result does not indicate his form.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Wout subpar in early races and he gets tons of heat, but nobody mentions Mathieu...he lost to 19 other guys today, one of them being Ben Healey...in a sprint, that wasn't uphill. Maybe Mathieu won't be so dominant this spring. He surely isn't going to beat Teddy with form like that. Sh!t, Pidcock smoked him today, and he rode Strade on Sunday.

MVP has nothing to prove. He already won RVV and PR multiple times. On the other hand, WVA has nothing to show.

 

[Berniece]

Wout subpar in early races and he gets tons of heat, but nobody mentions Mathieu...he lost to 19 other guys today, one of them being Ben Healey...in a sprint, that wasn't uphill. Maybe Mathieu won't be so dominant this spring. He surely isn't going to beat Teddy with form like that. Sh!t, Pidcock smoked him today, and he rode Strade on Sunday.

Maybe watch the replay, and not just the result. He’s going to win MSR again

 

[dazaau]

Maybe watch the replay, and not just the result. He’s going to win MSR again

Yep. Unless Tadej pulls off something great. Although MSR is always a bit of a lottery, which I guess makes an otherwise boring race format exciting!

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

I watched the race, he got smoked. Spin what however you need to.

 

[Berniece]

I watched the race, he got smoked. Spin what however you need to.

He attacked, closed a gap on Ganna, and then was clearly blocked by Ben Healy. This isn't any spin, he was in decent form and if you think he won't be good this spring you are in for a big surprise.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

He attacked, closed a gap on Ganna, and then was clearly blocked by Ben Healy. This isn't any spin, he was in decent form and if you think he won't be good this spring you are in for a big surprise.

Also since you clearly didn't watch the race, here's the recap.

I watched the race, he got smoked. Ganna beat him. Pidcock beat him. Rick Pluimers beat him. He may be good this spring, but in any race where he is up against Pogacar, he will get smoked. Being "good" this spring won't be enough. This isn't a field of guys who only race cyclocross, or are coming off 2 major injuries last year. I think training with Zwift kids isn't the best training or something. He has been MIA so far this week, other than chasing down Ganna...which gained him what? 20th place. His TT was laughable.

He stated that he came to Tirreno to win stages...he ain't done that yet...

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

MVP has nothing to prove. He already won RVV and PR multiple times. On the other hand, WVA has nothing to show.

I mean...except:

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