Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Netserk]

Ps everyone knows that King Kong is stronger than Godzilla

Wrong. Spectacularly wrong. The big ape ain't got *** on the kaiju.

 

[Arvid Falk]

Hard to say what MVDP could do in LBL if he really prepared for it. Usually he rides it after several weeks of hard cobble races. If he skipped RVV and PR and dropped 1-2 kilos I think he could win LBL if Pog and Remco aren't not competing. But we know this won't happen because MVDP himself has said that will continue to focus on the monuments he is most suited for, namely MSR, RVV and PR.

 

[No Excuses]

Chapeau goatslayer
Hoping for revenge at RVV

 

[Extinction]

Just like Pogi can’t win MSR or Roubaix if Mathieu is in the shape of yesterday.

The original premise was that Mathieu is the more "all-rounder", which is merely laughable. He's a cobbles specialist who can also win MSR. Tadej, on the other hand, wins mouments and grand tours, he is in a totally different league. Furthermore, it's not a given that Mathieu in yesterday's form will always beat Tadej. The sample is too small. In my opinion, had Tadej done TA, he would have had that little bit extra power to finish the job. Granted this is speculation, but only racing SB was not optimal preparation. Look what Ganna was able to do after TA in the legs. The fact that Pog didn't do TA or PN and won't do another stage race untile DL , means he wants to save something for the Tour because of his heavy classics campaign. Even if perhaps lacking a stage race in the legs before the said classics campaign, might not give him that added one percent that he may need now.

 

[Arvid Falk]

Very good press conference with Mathieu

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG5v2C0hPU4


Some titbits:
- Was under pressure on Cipressa, but confident he could follow Pog on Poggio
- During the winter he thought about a long sprint to surprise his opponents.
- He feels very strong this year. He has trained harder than ever and feels he can handle the increased volume.
- Says it's impossible to win LBL and Lombardia given how strong Pog and Remco is, but then says it's maybe not impossible but that he needs a lot of luck to win. However he won't aim to try to win these races, will instead focus on races that suits his strenghts.
- Win in MSR doesn't matter for Flanders since it is a completely different race.
- Confesses it will be hard to beat Pog in Flanders, tougher race and more climbs
- Says Pog showed in TDF that he can ride the cobbles very well and that he can win PR, but that it won't be easy.

 

[Gratemans]

Very good press conference with Mathieu

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG5v2C0hPU4


Some titbits:
- Was under pressure on Cipressa, but confident he could follow Pog on Poggio
- During the winter he thought about a long sprint to surprise his opponents.
- He feels very strong this year. He has trained harder than ever and feels he can handle the increased volume.
- Says it's impossible to win LBL and Lombardia given how strong Pog and Remco is, but then says it's maybe not impossible but that he needs a lot of luck to win. However he won't aim to try to win these races, will instead focus on races that suits his strenghts.
- Win in MSR doesn't matter for Flanders since it is a completely different race.
- Confesses it will be hard to beat Pog in Flanders, tougher race and more climbs
- Says Pog showed in TDF that he can ride the cobbles very well and that he can win PR, but that it won't be easy.

He really knows what's what. Don't agree with his last point hough. Would be fun if Pog tries, but I just don't see him win there.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Better all-around racer? Come on dude. Let's see. GT, stage race, climbing, TT, sprint, pavé, strade bianche. How many is Mathieu better than Tadej? We are talking about World Tour road racing. It's not even close. MvDP is a great classics rider (except when it's too uphill) and stage hunter, Pogacar the best all-arounder since Hinault based on results.

Which is perhaps why the post to which you were replying stated 'Better all-around bike racer'
"We are talking about World Tour road racing": the person to whom you were responding explicitly was not talking to that limited category, and cited,MTB, gravel and CX.

Yes, we should be alert to the sub-forum we are in and the thread title, but to insist that there is no mention of his exploits in other aspects of his career here is to make it impossible to discuss him in a way that acknowledges his wide career anywhere.

 

[senna6541]

Better all-around racer? Come on dude. Let's see. GT, stage race, climbing, TT, sprint, pavé, strade bianche. How many is Mathieu better than Tadej? We are talking about World Tour road racing. It's not even close. MvDP is a great classics rider (except when it's too uphill) and stage hunter, Pogacar the best all-arounder since Hinault based on results.

I said all-around bike racer, not World Tour road racer. This isn't WT cyclingnews and there is a lot more to bike racing than road racing. Obviously Pogi is the better all-around road racer just by virtue of the fact he can win a GT (where you basically need to be an unhealthy skeleton to win) and has a shot in all the biggest one day races. That said, MVDP is a superior bike handler, better sprint, more explosive, better pave rider, and IMO is the better overall classics rider. If you throw out the most questionable of the Monuments (Lombardia with it's weak field and pure climber profile) MVDP's one day record is better than Pogi's and they've been at it the same number of years. I just think it is funny when that lots of bike racing fans don't realize how good MVDP is and are surprised when Pogi gets beat by the other freak of nature in cycling today. Seems like lots of folks on this site only watch the watch the TDF or something.

 

[jono]

MVDP's record in 10 most recent monument participations (beginning with RVV 2022): 1, 9, 1, 2, 1, 10, 1, 1, 3, 1

In more than three seasons of monuments racing, he had one "off" day (Paris-Roubaix 9th in '22) and one day working to set up a teammate's win (10th MSR '24).

Throw in WCs and you can add a 1st and a 3rd over that stretch.

Overall: 4, 13, 10, 6, 1, 5, 2, 3, 3, 1, 9, 1, 2, 1, 10, 1, 1, 3, 1

I'm sure Pogi's record is similarly astounding, but I'm not here to compare, just to appreciate greatness.

 

[ArnaudVDL]

I said all-around bike racer, not World Tour road racer. This isn't WT cyclingnews and there is a lot more to bike racing than road racing. Obviously Pogi is the better all-around road racer just by virtue of the fact he can win a GT (where you basically need to be an unhealthy skeleton to win) and has a shot in all the biggest one day races. That said, MVDP is a superior bike handler, better sprint, more explosive, better pave rider, and IMO is the better overall classics rider. If you throw out the most questionable of the Monuments (Lombardia with it's weak field and pure climber profile) MVDP's one day record is better than Pogi's and they've been at it the same number of years. I just think it is funny when that lots of bike racing fans don't realize how good MVDP is and are surprised when Pogi gets beat by the other freak of nature in cycling today. Seems like lots of folks on this site only watch the watch the TDF or something.

Their records in one day races are about equal, you can not just drop one monument. Also what qualifies MVDP as the better classics rider. They are about equal in monuments and world championships, but Pogacar can put up a fight in MSR and RVV and be close with him. MVDP can not do that against Pogacar in LBL and Lombardia. Pogacar's versatility is something MVDP doesn not have.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Very good press conference with Mathieu

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG5v2C0hPU4


Some titbits:
- Was under pressure on Cipressa, but confident he could follow Pog on Poggio
- During the winter he thought about a long sprint to surprise his opponents.
- He feels very strong this year. He has trained harder than ever and feels he can handle the increased volume.
- Says it's impossible to win LBL and Lombardia given how strong Pog and Remco is, but then says it's maybe not impossible but that he needs a lot of luck to win. However he won't aim to try to win these races, will instead focus on races that suits his strenghts.
- Win in MSR doesn't matter for Flanders since it is a completely different race.
- Confesses it will be hard to beat Pog in Flanders, tougher race and more climbs
- Says Pog showed in TDF that he can ride the cobbles very well and that he can win PR, but that it won't be easy.

Very interesting. He is saying he is in his shape ever. Looks good for a win in MSR, RVV and PR. When was the last time a rider won these 3 races on the same year?

 

[Froome]

Very good press conference with Mathieu

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG5v2C0hPU4


Some titbits:
- Was under pressure on Cipressa, but confident he could follow Pog on Poggio
- During the winter he thought about a long sprint to surprise his opponents.
- He feels very strong this year. He has trained harder than ever and feels he can handle the increased volume.
- Says it's impossible to win LBL and Lombardia given how strong Pog and Remco is, but then says it's maybe not impossible but that he needs a lot of luck to win. However he won't aim to try to win these races, will instead focus on races that suits his strenghts.
- Win in MSR doesn't matter for Flanders since it is a completely different race.
- Confesses it will be hard to beat Pog in Flanders, tougher race and more climbs
- Says Pog showed in TDF that he can ride the cobbles very well and that he can win PR, but that it won't be easy.

We talk a lot about PDB, Combloux, but there is a perfomance by this guy super underrated.

I am talking about the perfomance he did last year in PR. Look at the gaps. He achieved more than 3 minutes gap to the competition. It was unbeliavable.

If he is again in the same shape, i think he is unbeatable there unless he has bad luck. So, if he talks about being in his best shape ever, when he did that last year.....super scary. Probably one of the best performances i saw since i started watching cycling in 2003 and he is just a part timer. Cycling is really in his blood.

 

[Berniece]

The original premise was that Mathieu is the more "all-rounder", which is merely laughable. He's a cobbles specialist who can also win MSR. Tadej, on the other hand, wins mouments and grand tours, he is in a totally different league. Furthermore, it's not a given that Mathieu in yesterday's form will always beat Tadej. The sample is too small. In my opinion, had Tadej done TA, he would have had that little bit extra power to finish the job. Granted this is speculation, but only racing SB was not optimal preparation. Look what Ganna was able to do after TA in the legs. The fact that Pog didn't do TA or PN and won't do another stage race untile DL , means he wants to save something for the Tour because of his heavy classics campaign. Even if perhaps lacking a stage race in the legs before the said classics campaign, might not give him that added one percent that he may need now.

Premise was not the best all-rounder, because you are correct, Pogacar is much more all-round than MVDP. The premise was that MVDP is the best 1 day racer.

 

[Arvid Falk]

Noticed on procyclingstats.com that Mathieu only rides E3, RVV and PR. No GW, Dwoors, AGR or LBL.

Is the limited amount of spring races due to mountainbiking in May. Is he planing to do Nove Mesto for example?

 

[Extinction]

I said all-around bike racer, not World Tour road racer. This isn't WT cyclingnews and there is a lot more to bike racing than road racing. Obviously Pogi is the better all-around road racer just by virtue of the fact he can win a GT (where you basically need to be an unhealthy skeleton to win) and has a shot in all the biggest one day races. That said, MVDP is a superior bike handler, better sprint, more explosive, better pave rider, and IMO is the better overall classics rider. If you throw out the most questionable of the Monuments (Lombardia with it's weak field and pure climber profile) MVDP's one day record is better than Pogi's and they've been at it the same number of years. I just think it is funny when that lots of bike racing fans don't realize how good MVDP is and are surprised when Pogi gets beat by the other freak of nature in cycling today. Seems like lots of folks on this site only watch the watch the TDF or something.

MVDP is a specialist in road cycling. I wasn't considering cross, because it's not in the same category. Most of the talk on this forum, the overwherming majority, concerns road cycling. And I'm not a Pogi fan, but I recognize he is the most gifted cyclist since Hinault. I also proritize winning grand tours, particularly the Tour, as the benchmark of Big in terms of the pecking order in cycling. When you can win GTs and monuments like Flanders, however, you are fuori classe period. MvDP doesn't belong in that league, however great a set of set skills he has. He is a giant at what he specializes in, particularly the cobbled monuments, but there is a lot more to cycling on the road that makes him far inferior to the Slovenian. Again, I'm not considering cross, because it's a separate discipline in which very few top road cyclists participate. Just like I'm not considering mountain bike or gravel, which are fine sports, but can't be brought into a discussion about "all-around" best when events like the monuments, Tour and WCRR come into the equation.

 

[Extinction]

Which is perhaps why the post to which you were replying stated 'Better all-around bike racer'
"We are talking about World Tour road racing": the person to whom you were responding explicitly was not talking to that limited category, and cited,MTB, gravel and CX.

Yes, we should be alert to the sub-forum we are in and the thread title, but to insist that there is no mention of his exploits in other aspects of his career here is to make it impossible to discuss him in a way that acknowledges his wide career anywhere.

I provided a fuller explanation of my reasoning in a response to Senna. I bet if Tadej dedicated as much to cross as Mathiew, for example, he would get damn good at it, much more than MVDP could do if he planned his whole season around the Tour for GC in terms of where he could arrive. I realize the absurdity of what I just wrote, but I don't think it's flawed logic.

 

[Arvid Falk]

I think few disagree that Pogacar is a more versatile rider on the road. MVDP has himself said it several times that Pog is a generational talent, probably one of the greatest ever and I agree. For Pog to be such a good classics rider while also winning Gradn Tours is extraordinary.

MVDP isn't built for being a GT rider but he has used his strenghts to dominate where he can on the road and in other disciplinces. To me he is one of the greatest all-around bike riders ever. It would be fantastic if he could win MTB Worlds this year.

 

[Extinction]

I think few disagree that Pogacar is a more versatile rider on the road. MVDP has himself said it several times that Pog is a generational talent, probably one of the greatest ever and I agree. For Pog to be such a good classics rider while also winning Gradn Tours is extraordinary.

MVDP isn't built for being a GT rider but he has used his strenghts to dominate where he can on the road and in other disciplinces. To me he is one of the greatest all-around bike riders ever. It would be fantastic if he could win MTB Worlds this year.

Put this way, yes, I agree. And evidently Senna meant it this way too, which means I must agree again. Otherwise, I stand by the other points I was trying to make.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

Why are we now comparing MVDP to Pogacar?? The van Aert vs MVDP comparison we had to sit through over the last 5 years makes way more sense. Eventhough this comparing-business is so exhausting. But Pogacar and MVDP cannot be compared. Their difference in physical size and weight alone makes that discussion moot. Based on road racing palmares Pogacar is clearly the better road racer. How can that even be a question after what we have seen from him last couple of years?

 

[ArnaudVDL]

Why are we now comparing MVDP to Pogacar?? The van Aert vs MVDP comparison we had to sit through over the last 5 years makes way more sense. Eventhough this comparing-business is so exhausting. But Pogacar and MVDP cannot be compared. Their difference in physical size and weight alone makes that discussion moot. Based on road racing palmares Pogacar is clearly the better road racer. How can that even be a question after what we have seen from him last couple of years?

Because results wise(one day races), Van Aert is not close to MVDP. Pogacar is.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

Because results wise(one day races), Van Aert is not close to MVDP. Pogacar is.

World Tour one day races Pogacar already leads MVDP 17 over 15 and will only continue to grow that gap in the next couple of years. It's pointless comparison. Pogacar is clearly better and I would not call myself a fan of his. I only like him better in TDF than Boringaard.

 

[Blanco]

No, it's the opposite really, because Pogi can "cross-over" and win Flanders, but MVDP will never win Liege (at least if Pogi or Remco are racing) or Lombardia. While in MSR both are equally impressive in my book, even if MVDP has netted 2 wins and Pogi none. And I wasn't rooting for Pogi.

Funny thing that they're equally impressive in Ronde and San Remo, while Van Der Poel has 5 wins against 1 win of Pogacar.
Similar stuff happened with Van Aert comparisons.

 

[Blanco]

World Tour one day races Pogacar already leads MVDP 17 over 15 and will only continue to grow that gap in the next couple of years. It's pointless comparison. Pogacar is clearly better and I would not call myself a fan of his. I only like him better in TDF than Boringaard.

It is 24-19 for Van Der Poel overall, and that will only continue to grow...

 

[Peyroteo94]

History shows cobbled specialists are good in MSR. I don't think the same can be said about GdL or LBL winners/podium finishers.

 

[Extinction]

Funny thing that they're equally impressive in Ronde and San Remo, while Van Der Poel has 5 wins against 1 win of Pogacar.
Similar stuff happened with Van Aert comparisons.

Pog, though, only has ridden Ronde twice and, let's face it, San Remo suites Mathieu more than Tadej.