Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[red_flanders]

He mind controlled Alaphilippe and Fuglsang?

Cute. Probably best to not assume the rest of us are idiots. Maybe the phrase “made his own luck” doesn’t translate well, I’m not sure if you’re a native English speaker. What it means is he gave it everything he had, and if he hadn’t, it wouldn’t have mattered what JA and JF did, he wouldn’t have won. Kind of like “Fortune favors the bold”.

Was he lucky they piddled around? Sure. Does that take anything away from how impressive that win was? Not a thing.

 

[tobydawq]

After his dumb attack in Amstel, out of 100 possible scenario's there was basically one scenario left where he could win, and he was lucky enough to end up in the scenario where the two best riders decided it was a good time to stare in each other's eyes, while Mathieu was picked up by a chasing group, where everybody worked together, and they were able to bridge going into the final kilometer. He didn't win because he was the best rider in the race, or because he was tactically astute (quite the opposite), he won because he got lucky and has an amazing acceleration in his legs.

Looking back at Strade, knowing what we've seen, it was basically the opposite. Out of 100 scenario's, there may have been one scenario where he could lose. He's definitely either improved as a rider, or is currently riding a much better form than in 2019.

I also quite disagree with the idea that he was subpar all through 2020. That's simply not the case. He was good in Lombardia and in Liège. Him having been any better in Liège, would have meant he would have been in the front group and won the sprint easily. In Lombardia, he surprised me, but on the other hand, he was clearly a bit out of his depth. Yet so much better than he was in Algarve for instance. I think Liège2020 MvdP >>> Amstel2019 MvdP.


That's highly subjective. I enjoy watching TT's. It's also the most brutally honest competition there is in cycling, bad luck (or changing weather) notwithstanding. I'd compare it with enjoying different types of movies, series, books... That's why a good GT has something in every department, and just like a TV serie that has a thread running through all episodes, each episode offers something new and different with possible plot twists. I'm sure you'd enjoy Mathieu blasting away on hilly courses, as i would enjoy Evenepoel doing 50k solos wrecking the chasers... but it would get stale soon enough without variety or competition.

1) That is really an underselling of his Amstel win!

2) By its nature, Strade is a race where the best rider is more sure to win than Amstel.

3) Of course he was subpar in LBL, the guy had been on an 80k solo to win the BinckBank Tour just 24 hours earlier...

 

[Bolder]

Logic aside, MvdP plays to my emotional enjoyment of cycling the way Sagan and a few other riders do. There has always been the "slaves to the road" element to professional cycling that makes it a sport worth watching. So when MvdP pulls off exploits like Amstel or Strade, it's far more interesting to me because of his heritage, his domination of CX and XC, and yes, the way he looks on a bicycle. If he's in the race, 9 times out of 10 he's the rider everyone else is cueing off of.

 

[Fernandez]

And why not. For any hack like me who likes riding bikes - especially all different kinds of bikes - I'd say Sagan, and even more so VDP, are pretty fun guys to watch. Beats the hell out of watching a bunch of skeletons pace their way up a mountain at 12mph - and watching TT's isn't exactly riveting either.

I was refereing about the fanatic and subjective way of following a certain rider.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Once and for all. In 2019, Van der Poel would never have won the Amstel in normal conditions. He attacked way too early. He passed himself, and, in the final, couldn't react on attacks from others. He eventually ended up in a third group. But then, recovered. With the help of the others in the group, he overtook other riders. And his group got closer to Ala/Fughlsang, because the latter had been in the lead for a long time. But the lead was more than big enough to fight it out between the two of them. But then, Fughlsang in the first place, and Ala later on, almost stopped cycling. That was the only reason Van der Poel could win that Amstel in the last few meters of the race. Ala never made the same mistake again afterwards (cfr the duel wit Van Aert in M-S-R and the duel last week with Van der Poel and Bernal in the Strade.

 

[SafeBet]

That was the only reason Van der Poel could win that Amstel in the last few meters of the race.

If that's the only reason then all of the other 150 riders at the start could have won that race.
And we know it's not true.

 

[Bolder]

The thing is, yes, MvDP benefited hugely from JA/JF futzing around, but I watched the end of that race a number of times and Mathieu was driving that chase group, and he gave a Strade like effort in the last few kms. He was absolutely knackered after the win. You'd have to be a real grump to say that it was only luck that gave him that win...

I love JA but I do blame him for losing that race. I think he and Fuglsang genuinely do not like each other, and in the heat of the moment JA forgot about everything he knows about racing. But as you say, he learned his lesson. Now he just needs to watch out for motos better...

 

[tobydawq]

I love JA but I do blame him for losing that race. I think he and Fuglsang genuinely do not like each other, and in the heat of the moment JA forgot about everything he knows about racing.

Right, that must be why Alaphilippe said he hoped Fuglsang would win LBL that year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

i read in an interview with Simon Clarke later that the pivotal moment was the false flat uphill part from 2km to 1km. That's where Alaph was riding really slowly and Mathieu was absolutely going flat out to the point that the guys in that group were struggling to hold the wheel. I think they closed nearly 45 seconds in that little part alone. Just because Alaph was not keeping up at least some sort of pace with Fugl in his wheel.

 

[Blanco]

I love JA but I do blame him for losing that race. I think he and Fuglsang genuinely do not like each other, and in the heat of the moment JA forgot about everything he knows about racing. But as you say, he learned his lesson. Now he just needs to watch out for motos better...

And throw arms in the air only after the finish line

 

[Samu Cuenca]

And throw arms in the air only after the finish line

And learn to sprint safely.

 

[Blanco]

And learn to sprint safely.

Yep, still a lot to learn for Ala..

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The thing is, yes, MvDP benefited hugely from JA/JF futzing around, but I watched the end of that race a number of times and Mathieu was driving that chase group, and he gave a Strade like effort in the last few kms. He was absolutely knackered after the win. You'd have to be a real grump to say that it was only luck that gave him that win...

I love JA but I do blame him for losing that race. I think he and Fuglsang genuinely do not like each other, and in the heat of the moment JA forgot about everything he knows about racing. But as you say, he learned his lesson. Now he just needs to watch out for motos better...

Like i said, not just Mathieu but others from that chase group said the TV gave the impression that he was doing the chasing in that group, while the group worked together the entire time. As for saying it was only luck... it's good that that's not what i was saying. Probably nobody else could have done it, but the fact that he was still in a position to win it from there after what happened that race, was luck.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

By the way, strange nobody made any notion of it considering his win in Strade, but i wonder if he still thinks it was a good decision not going to the WCC last year.

 

[tobydawq]

By the way, strange nobody made any notion of it considering his win in Strade, but i wonder if he still thinks it was a good decision not going to the WCC last year.

It obviously wasn't.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

i wonder what he choses this year.

the route in Belgium should suit him but if he wants to become MTB world champion it probably won't fit his schedule

 

[Bonimenier]

i wonder what he choses this year.

the route in Belgium should suit him but if he wants to become MTB world champion it probably won't fit his schedule

Pretty sure he'll switch back to the road after the Olympics to focus on the world's road.

 

[Blanco]

By the way, strange nobody made any notion of it considering his win in Strade, but i wonder if he still thinks it was a good decision not going to the WCC last year.

In last year's form, it was. In this year's it wasn't

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In last year's form, it was. In this year's it wasn't

Like i said before, there is a huge difference between his early season 2020 form, and his late summer 2020 forum. So, i'm not convinced, though his current form is clearly better still.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Here's an interesting analysis of his power data in SB. He went over 1300 Watt in the final K.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/an...-1300-watt-strade-bianche-winning-power-data/

 

[red_flanders]

Like i said, not just Mathieu but others from that chase group said the TV gave the impression that he was doing the chasing in that group, while the group worked together the entire time. As for saying it was only luck... it's good that that's not what i was saying. Probably nobody else could have done it, but the fact that he was still in a position to win it from there after what happened that race, was luck.

I certainly heard similar reports, but what I heard said was that he didn't work the entire time at the front, that others did in fact pull through several times. It looked on TV like he pulled the group for 10k (about which everyone was blown away), but it sounds from the other riders like he only mostly pulled the group for 10k. What is clear is that every time the TV cameras were on that group, he was at the front and the rest of them were hanging on. Whatever the reality of that chase, he was certainly on the front alone for the last 1.5 - 2k, and the really crazy thing was that no one could come around him in the sprint after all that.

It was an astonishing display. I've never seen anything like it in all my years watching bike racing.

 

[tobydawq]

I certainly heard similar reports, but what I heard said was that he didn't work the entire time at the front, that others did in fact pull through several times. It looked on TV like he pulled the group for 10k (about which everyone was blown away), but it sounds from the other riders like he only mostly pulled the group for 10k. What is clear is that every time the TV cameras were on that group, he was at the front and the rest of them were hanging on. Whatever the reality of that chase, he was certainly on the front alone for the last 1.5 - 2k, and the really crazy thing was that no one could come around him in the sprint after all that.

It was an astonishing display. I've never seen anything like it in all my years watching bike racing.

Actually, he was not on the front when they got through the final bend. But yes, no doubt he was the driving force in that group.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Reports from that group however, like Lambrecht (rest his soul ) said that he did pull a LOT of the time though. obviously he didn't do it alone

 

[red_flanders]

Actually, he was not on the front when they got through the final bend. But yes, no doubt he was the driving force in that group.

You're right, he did drop off the front for a few moments...but of course took up the chase again when it wasn't going fast enough which he realized very quickly.

 

[senna6541]

He made his luck in Amstel. No one else would have done what he did and it was simply awesome.

Exactly what I was thinking. Maybe it was a 1 out of 100 chance, but he's the only guy in the world with the sheer talent and self-belief to pull Amstel off. All I know is that MVDP seems to win a a helluva lot of bike races in 3 disciplines, and more often than not in an extraordinary fashion. He fairly consistently does sh__ that no one else can do.