Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Dekker_Tifosi]

as for the bigger engine, sure Van Aert has that. But sometimes people seem to forget VDP himself is a huge engine himself. One of the very very few riders who can do multiple attacks in a stage or classic at World tour level AND with the capability to stay away solo.

 

[glassmoon]

According to Wielerflits, the cause of the pain is a herniated disc.

that seems rather bad... i'm not counting he'll be back before the start of the CX season... sad

 

[senna6541]

How do you know that Van Aert has a bigger engine? I have seen Van der Poel do outrageous solos many times but am yet to see Van Aert do one (his Ventoux was more a question of being better uphill than his adversaries).

Yeah, always love the Van Aert has a "bigger engine" argument. It's a way of Van Aert fans trying to say they are equal (MVDP better handle, more explosive and WVA bigger engine). The reality is though that these guys have lined up against each other something like 200 times as elite pros and MVDP has a huge head to head advantage.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I think it applies to the heavy, muddy courses (for example Valkenburg, Dendermonde) were Wout has put minutes into MvdP; pure raw power overcomes technical skills, and explosive bursts of speed. Think of them as 3.2L racing engines; one has diesel like low down torque, the other is more peaky top end power.

 

[stonerider]

I've watched MVDP and WVA race each other for years...since they were 18 years old. WVA has higher 60 minute power and better at low cadence conditions. MVDP has higher 3 minute power and is a better bike handler. They are both phenomenal athletes. My hope is that MVDP will take the time needed to heal properly and start, if not already, a proper core training routine that he can keep up year round to eliminate this problem from recurring in the future.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

And for the first time, van der Poel himself confirmed that the constant switch to mountain biking put an enormous strain on his body. His supervisors (entourage) also indicated that it might be wise to give up mountain biking in the long run. So, that's a different story from what we have read on this forum by some "so called experts". But in the meantime that is the smallest of van der Poel's problems. A hernia is a potential dangerous injury for a top athlete. Contrary to what some claim, a hernia never heals completely. This injury can be kept under control through adapted exercises. And by not straining the body and back again later in the wrong way. Hopefully he is wiser than some experts on this forum.

Meanwhile I fear he will have to miss the end of the cycling season and the start of the cyclocross season.

 

[Bolder]

Yeah, always love the Van Aert has a "bigger engine" argument. It's a way of Van Aert fans trying to say they are equal (MVDP better handle, more explosive and WVA bigger engine). The reality is though that these guys have lined up against each other something like 200 times as elite pros and MVDP has a huge head to head advantage.

Yeah, I don't think MvdP gives anything away to Wout in the power department. But he's a much more impulsive rider who often gambles on his immediate sensations rather than playing the long game. And I don't think he enjoys climbing, which for bigger riders especially requires careful effort management. Whereas Wout appears to see climbing and TTs as problems to be solved.

 

[Ripper]

And for the first time, van der Poel himself confirmed that the constant switch to mountain biking put an enormous strain on his body. His supervisors (entourage) also indicated that it might be wise to give up mountain biking in the long run. So, that's a different story from what we have read on this forum by some "so called experts". But in the meantime that is the smallest of van der Poel's problems. A hernia is a potential dangerous injury for a top athlete. Contrary to what some claim, a hernia never heals completely. This injury can be kept under control through adapted exercises. And by not straining the body and back again later in the wrong way. Hopefully he is wiser than some experts on this forum.

Meanwhile I fear he will have to miss the end of the cycling season and the start of the cyclocross season.

Depends on which experts There was too much talk about the change in position. I think it has to do with a combo of: too many changes in types of racing (not just posture), too much racing year round without rest, and a bit of bad luck. That latter part, whether purely luck or related to genetics, is actually pretty important with respect to disc injuries. Not sure if any articles indicated which disc, but that would also be interesting.

And yes, he'll need to rest/recover properly and follow whatever core strengthening/flexibility program he needs to do. Remains to be seen if a microdiscectomy might be required.

Sucks. I've been there and I've worked with people who have been there. But not the end of his career.

 

[Boes]

Yeah, always love the Van Aert has a "bigger engine" argument. It's a way of Van Aert fans trying to say they are equal (MVDP better handle, more explosive and WVA bigger engine). The reality is though that these guys have lined up against each other something like 200 times as elite pros and MVDP has a huge head to head advantage.

Nowhere have I ever stated WVA is equal to MVP. I'm a WVA fan, but I have absolutely no problem in admitting MVP is more talented on a bike.

MVP never needs no transition when competing CX, MTB or on the road. He immediately competes for the win whereas WVA usually need a few races to transition from one discipline to the other.
Other then that, when they're both 100% top notch I argue them equal on the road, depending obviously on the course, but MVP is better in the field (and MTB to, but that's a given).

 

[BlueRoads]

I'm not such a van Aert fan anymore, but for me he's still better on the road than van der Poel. Obviously van der Poel is the better allround cyclist if you look at all disciplines. But on the road I see it differently since van Aert is a great climber, too.

I am still very sure van Aert has the bigger pure engine, just based on the cross races, although I don't follow that closely, but what I saw convinced me totally of that.

I think van der Poel doing long solos which van Aert doesn't like to do like that, is a result of character more than of physical traits. Van der Poel races road without thinking much about tactics, he just goes for it, while van Aert, although not always cleverly, tries to save energy here and there and is more careful in spending it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I'd also say Van Aert seems to focus more on the road. Which enables him to 100% be a better road rider. Also invests more time into things like climbing altitude camps and tt position.

VDP only beats him in the explosivity part. I do wonder how VDP would go if he 100% focussed on road (bar a few CX races) without MTB. But I don'think we will see any time soon.

 

[Red Rick]

I'd also say Van Aert seems to focus more on the road. Which enables him to 100% be a better road rider. Also invests more time into things like climbing altitude camps and tt position.

VDP only beats him in the explosivity part. I do wonder how VDP would go if he 100% focussed on road (bar a few CX races) without MTB. But I don'think we will see any time soon.

Seems to me that Van Aert just has a bigger engine, even if MvdPs isn't exactly small.

 

[Ripper]

I'm not such a van Aert fan anymore, but for me he's still better on the road than van der Poel. Obviously van der Poel is the better allround cyclist if you look at all disciplines. But on the road I see it differently since van Aert is a great climber, too.

I am still very sure van Aert has the bigger pure engine, just based on the cross races, although I don't follow that closely, but what I saw convinced me totally of that.

I think van der Poel doing long solos which van Aert doesn't like to do like that, is a result of character more than of physical traits. Van der Poel races road without thinking much about tactics, he just goes for it, while van Aert, although not always cleverly, tries to save energy here and there and is more careful in spending it.

The long solos are also partly about how one gets those long solos. Van der Poel can explosively get away in a fashion that van Aert tends not to (he certainly seems to create a more sudden and larger gap). And, as you say, he tends to go on long range attacks more, so there is character.

I would add van der Poel can process lactate extremely quickly compared to others, including van Aert. He can recover very well from repeated sprints or efforts that are well above FTP. Van Aert seems to be able to hold a long controlled effort at a higher level than van der Poel.

They both do very well because they are exceptional. They are quite different in their characteristics though. One thing I know for certain is they both have "bigger engines" than me

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

I find it hard getting a realistic image of this situation right now.

Do you guys believe them (MvDP and people around him) when they say these back problems have got nothing to do with his crash in the Olympics‘ MTB race, or do you think these problems are the consequence of the crash?

 

[Ricco']

I find it hard getting a realistic image of this situation right now.

Do you guys believe them (MvDP and people around him) when they say these back problems have got nothing to do with his crash in the Olympics‘ MTB race, or do you think these problems are the consequence of the crash?

Maybe aggravated by that.

All that Olympic build-up, almost radio silence by him and his team on his preparation after leaving the Tour, arriving there on the thursday before the race. Maybe he was already with the problem and trying to manage it before travelling to Japan?

 

[Axel Hangleck]

I doubt the crash helped, but it seems like an ongoing issue.....

However, I do laugh at the 'internet experts' who have immediately assumed he needs to drop MTB, and concentrate on the road.

 

[glassmoon]

I doubt the crash helped, but it seems like an ongoing issue.....

However, I do laugh at the 'internet experts' who have immediately assumed he needs to drop MTB, and concentrate on the road.

I'm inclined to believe that switch to road actually might be the issue. Countless hours in the same position often in cold... but yeah we can't really know. And that crash probaly just made it much worse I imagine. Hope he'll sort it out eventually.
Both "versions" can be correct or it could be totally differnt thing.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

not the first time he had to come back from serious issues either.

In one of his first years as pro in CX he had several knee issues that needed an operation in the end. Cost him quite some time to get back to his best after that.

 

[BlueRoads]

Any news/ updates?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Any news/ updates?

nothing good. Monday is the final decision. So far no progress at all in back issues.

 

[BlueRoads]

nothing good. Monday is the final decision. So far no progress at all in back issues.

Okay. Not that I love him, but it's a pity if he's not in a big race where he should have been, so I hope it's going to be fine soon.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah really sucks not to see him go up against Van Aert (and the rest which I tend to forget) in Worlds. Whatever maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.......

 

[KZD]

What annoys me the most is how several weeks after his back still seems to show no improvement.

 

[Spine Concept]

I'm not such a van Aert fan anymore, but for me he's still better on the road than van der Poel. Obviously van der Poel is the better allround cyclist if you look at all disciplines. But on the road I see it differently since van Aert is a great climber, too.

I am still very sure van Aert has the bigger pure engine, just based on the cross races, although I don't follow that closely, but what I saw convinced me totally of that.

I think van der Poel doing long solos which van Aert doesn't like to do like that, is a result of character more than of physical traits. Van der Poel races road without thinking much about tactics, he just goes for it, while van Aert, although not always cleverly, tries to save energy here and there and is more careful in spending it.

The only time that bigger engine argument comes to the fore in CX is in DEEP mud courses like Dendermonde. There's this notion that if there were more muddy courses Wout would dominate CX. This is simply inaccurate as Mathieu has beaten Wout plenty of times in "regular" muddy courses. It's impossible and quite monotonous to have Dendermonde-like courses all year. Even if we can imagine such a season Wout would hardly be considered the all-round best CX rider because the courses wouldn't be all-round at all.

I think Mathieu could be a great TT'er as well if he wanted to. Probably not as good as Wout cause the latter is better at sustained efforts, but he'd be up there for sure. Like has already been said, Wout is 100% focused on the road, Mathieu simply isn't. There's definitely a trade-off there for Mathieu as opposed to Wout. Jumbo being a WT team who invests a lot of time and capital into training for optimal performance in every discipline on the road doesn't hurt Wout either.

With that being said, I like both riders a lot. Wout for his never-say-die attitude and his versatility on the road and Mathieu for his explosiveness and unorthodox way of riding which is why everyone is glued to the tv every time he starts at any given race. This goes for XCO, CX and the road.

Their rivalry is amazing to watch, especially for those, like me, who have seen it evolve from their junior years in CX to what it is now. Long may it continue.

 

[senna6541]

Have a feeling the news on Monday will be season over. Guess I'll save some money on streaming subscriptions for a few months and maybe get a bit more done around the house the day of the WC and PR. Best to rest and comeback at 100% - wouldn't be MVDP if he could no longer pull of the mindbending stuff like '19 RVV, AG, Tour Brit, Namur, '20 BB, '21 SB, TA, TDF, etc., etc. The dude is wired to win - or go down in flames trying. This is one time he needs to listen to his old man.