Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[BlueRoads]

The facts prove you wrong. This isn't about you and me, it's about top athletes. Overload at that level kills a career.

You tend to put very, very debatable statements in place and then you act like everyone who disagrees is just plain stupid. Either you are trolling or you should think about your tone which is quite bold - to aggressive.

 

[jmdirt]

The facts prove you wrong. This isn't about you and me, it's about top athletes. Overload at that level kills a career.

Uh, I'm not talking about overload, I'm talking about your statement about position and back pain. And for the record, facts prove your statement wrong.

 

[Bonimenier]

The facts prove you wrong. This isn't about you and me, it's about top athletes. Overload at that level kills a career.

It's impressive how you try to keep changing the subject to make your so-called facts stick somewhat.

 

[Ripper]

Uh, I'm not talking about overload, I'm talking about your statement about position and back pain. And for the record, facts prove your statement wrong.

Indeed, I don't think the issue is one of position on the bike per se. Obviously we are not privy to what the injury is or what exacerbates it. Could be the jarring, could be the way forces are produced and the kind of efforts necessary, could be the physical movement patterns, etc. Clearly, one thing that seems to be an issue for him at this time is racing MTB.

 

[ppanther92]

Many riders struggle with back problems throughout their career, due to [...] constant changing of discipline.

That's just such an unfounded statement. Actually, like others indicated already I see, switching positions and sometimes even sports or at least doing stretches and core strength exercises in the off-season is the go to approach to deal with back-pain from overload to certain muscles or joints from a chronic exposure to the same efforts and forces all the time.

In no way do I claim to know what MvdP's problem is. But just stating that it all comes from different positions in different disciplines as a matter of fact is absurd.

 

[senna6541]

Like you said yourself you're the biggest MVDP fanboy.

Yes, but my point is still accurate.

 

[senna6541]

I don't think you understand. This is about top athletes. Not you and me. Once they struggle with back problems, it often becomes chronic .
Many riders struggle with back problems throughout their career, due to falls, sitting position, constant changing of discipline. If this isn't handled properly from the start, it often won't work out. So, for VdP it's essential that the back problems are now definitively solved. So by properly rehabilitating and by using the bicycle wisely.

The bottom line is that if his training/racing Benelux for training effect is compromised because of the back issue, he should bag Worlds and Roubaix. As good as he is, he needs to be at least close to peak form win those races. On form he is the odds on favorite to win both, but no reason to go there compromised when he would have no chance against a healthy WVA and whoever else. But, the idea that he isn't ever going to have injuries etc. if he'd only quit MTB'ing and or multi-disciplines is a joke. Full-time road racing is a helluva lot more risky on many levels than CX or XC - both physically and mentally for that matter.

 

[BlueRoads]

Yes, but my point is still accurate.

I totally fail to see why van der Poel should be better at Paris-Roubaix. Van der Poel and van Aert are about the same quality of classics riders, but they each have their strengths. Van der Poel is more explosive, but van Aert has the bigger engine, which is more important for a flat race with cobbles all the way. I certainly wouldn't put it past van der Poel to win P-R, but no way is he a bigger favourite for that race than van Aert, quite the opposite.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

Uh, I'm not talking about overload, I'm talking about your statement about position and back pain. And for the record, facts prove your statement wrong.

Facts prove I'm right. Van der Poel and many others before. And change of "position" in mountainbike (after competing in cyclocross and road and mountainbike and road and mountainbike and road) is overload. No doubt about it.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

It's impressive how you try to keep changing the subject to make your so-called facts stick somewhat.

And as always, no arguments by Bonimenier. Just a meaningless one-liner.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

That's just such an unfounded statement. Actually, like others indicated already I see, switching positions and sometimes even sports or at least doing stretches and core strength exercises in the off-season is the go to approach to deal with back-pain from overload to certain muscles or joints from a chronic exposure to the same efforts and forces all the time.

In no way do I claim to know what MvdP's problem is. But just stating that it all comes from different positions in different disciplines as a matter of fact is absurd.

Oh, I'm not the only one pointing this out. Medically trained people have already stated this. And it's not just about practicing three disciplines, but also about constantly switching. Cyclocross, then road, then mountainbike, then road, then training mountainbike, then the Tour, then preparing the olympics, then (nog being recovered from the heavy fall in Japan), a hard trainingcamp at height, on a road bike etc. etc. No overload ? No problems with positions ? Come on !

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

You tend to put very, very debatable statements in place and then you act like everyone who disagrees is just plain stupid. Either you are trolling or you should think about your tone which is quite bold - to aggressive.

I only respond to sometimes tendentious, sometimes derogatory comments from some here. How do you catalog their reactions?

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

The bottom line is that if his training/racing Benelux for training effect is compromised because of the back issue, he should bag Worlds and Roubaix. As good as he is, he needs to be at least close to peak form win those races. On form he is the odds on favorite to win both, but no reason to go there compromised when he would have no chance against a healthy WVA and whoever else. But, the idea that he isn't ever going to have injuries etc. if he'd only quit MTB'ing and or multi-disciplines is a joke. Full-time road racing is a helluva lot more risky on many levels than CX or XC - both physically and mentally for that matter.

But you can't compare what Van der Poel is doing with what others do only in one discipline. Of course, mountainbike is not specially overloading, when just doing mountainbike, and with the right technique and the right position,
which is visually not the case with van der Poel. Van der Poel is combining the (normal) overload of cyclocross, mountainbike and road. And for mountain bike and road, even changing several times during the same season . That is not wise and clearly overloading. You can be sure that they have gradually come to realize that in his entourage.

And for anyone with a different opinion. This is my own opinion (and that of several others). We will see in one or two years who is ultimately right.

 

[Ricco']

He is also out of the Tour of Benelux.

According to his team, the participation on the World Championships and Roubaix is not in question at the moment.

 

[tobydawq]

I totally fail to see why van der Poel should be better at Paris-Roubaix. Van der Poel and van Aert are about the same quality of classics riders, but they each have their strengths. Van der Poel is more explosive, but van Aert has the bigger engine, which is more important for a flat race with cobbles all the way. I certainly wouldn't put it past van der Poel to win P-R, but no way is he a bigger favourite for that race than van Aert, quite the opposite.

How do you know that Van Aert has a bigger engine? I have seen Van der Poel do outrageous solos many times but am yet to see Van Aert do one (his Ventoux was more a question of being better uphill than his adversaries).

 

[Boes]

How do you know that Van Aert has a bigger engine? I have seen Van der Poel do outrageous solos many times but am yet to see Van Aert do one (his Ventoux was more a question of being better uphill than his adversaries).

Well first there's his TT quality which is based more on engine then explosiveness.
Secondly, there the CX experience where WVA put MVP minutes behind him on flat but extremely muddy courses.

 

[Bonimenier]

How do you know that Van Aert has a bigger engine? I have seen Van der Poel do outrageous solos many times but am yet to see Van Aert do one (his Ventoux was more a question of being better uphill than his adversaries).

Wasn't the Ventoux stage exactly an example of his engine? Maintaining ridiculous watts for a longer period of time.

 

[jmdirt]

But you can't compare what Van der Poel is doing with what others do only in one discipline. Of course, mountainbike is not specially overloading, when just doing mountainbike, and with the right technique and the right position,
which is visually not the case with van der Poel. Van der Poel is combining the (normal) overload of cyclocross, mountainbike and road. And for mountain bike and road, even changing several times during the same season . That is not wise and clearly overloading. You can be sure that they have gradually come to realize that in his entourage.

And for anyone with a different opinion. This is my own opinion (and that of several others). We will see in one or two years who is ultimately right.

So they should never train on their TT bike then?

You shifted by adding 'overload', which wasn't your original assertion.

 

[glassmoon]

He is also out of the Tour of Benelux.

According to his team, the participation on the World Championships and Roubaix is not in question at the moment.

at the end it'll end up being like hi father suggested: rest, heal, prepare for the CX season... still I'd like him to get properly fit/ready for the WCH and PR but that seems like a stretch (no pun intended) right now...

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Rest, and sort whatever the problem is. He shouldn't be pressured into riding the Worlds Road race, nor P-R. Which I do wonder about.

 

[tobydawq]

Well first there's his TT quality which is based more on engine then explosiveness.
Secondly, there the CX experience where WVA put MVP minutes behind him on flat but extremely muddy courses.

And how much did he beat Van der Poel by on the one TT in the Tour they both did?

Okay, Van Aert may have underperformed a bit that day but Van der Poel just learned how to optimise the position the night before, it's certainly not because he is lacking an engine.

 

[Bonimenier]

And how much did he beat Van der Poel by on the one TT in the Tour they both did?

Okay, Van Aert may have underperformed a bit that day but Van der Poel just learned how to optimise the position the night before, it's certainly not because he is lacking an engine.

I think it's very naive to believe the story of Van der Poel optimizing his position on the TT bike just the night before known how professional APF is. Feels more like a story to make the legend even greater.

 

[Ricco']

According to Wielerflits, the cause of the pain is a herniated disc.

 

[SafeBet]

According to Wielerflits, the cause of the pain is a herniated disc.

That's season over right?
I would hate losing MvdP for Roubaix and the Worlds in Flanders, but surely he needs to treat this and fully heal before thinking about cycling.

 

[meat puppet]

The discussion about whether switching disciplines increases or decreases injury risk is a bit abstract without at least rudimentarily addressing what the switches imply position-wise (which is still a far cry from addressing cases individually, of course). Generally, an MTB will have a more upright position than a road bike, which usually means quite a bit less anterior pelvic tilt and hence a more rounded back position. MVDP does not have the flattest of lower backs on the road bike, either, but I would bet it is closer to his neutral position than his MTB is. Now, add repeated & steep climbs done at high power outputs but often at lower than road cadences (meaning higher torque), and I think it is not outlandish to suggest that an overuse injury to the lower back may occur - especially if the rider in question is in any way prone to develop back problems.

Many will of course get away with the switches no probs, too, but I would guess the pro level power outputs are a risk factor even if their core strength is top notch.