Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The thing is Safebet, If van der Poel rides like Colbrelli he would not have finished even top 10. People will just sit on or attack behind his back if he doesn't do any work. So riding like Colbrelli would not work for Van der Poel and Van Aert. Target on their back is too big

 

[SafeBet]

The thing is Safebet, If van der Poel rides like Colbrelli he would not have finished even top 10. People will just sit on or attack behind his back if he doesn't do any work. So riding like Colbrelli would not work for Van der Poel and Van Aert. Target on their back is too big

That, I agree. And it's partly due to Van Aert and Van der Poel tendency to always show how strong they are very early in the races. He can't ride like Colbrelli did and I'm not suggesting he should (unless particular circumstances occur).

There are other ways of racing though. First of all, use your damn teammates. I struggle to remember a big race where he used his team properly. In PR he should have kept the leading group closer. If you have a target on your back because everybody knows you are the best then act like you're the best and control the race. And when you bridge to Philipsen have him pull until he dies on the road.

Also, stop attacking at random moments. A couple of times in PR he attacked at the end of a cobble sector and kept going when he got out of it. Makes no sense, it's only a total waste of energy. I'm not saying he should change his nature, but choose your spots. Hide a bit and save some energy, then go all out when needed.

 

[Volderke]

MvdP should take lessons of Carapaz:
Pretend you are almost finished and barely able to follow.

if MvdP would do that, and win monuments with a millimeter sprint in the end, and pretend he almost died doing that, both his target on his back will become smaller, and at the same time, he'll win more races.

Question is: do we want this, as fans of good racing?

 

[SafeBet]

Question is: do we want this, as fans of good racing?

I'm honestly split.
Because the reply is no as a fan of great (not simply good) racing. But yes as a fan of his.

 

[limak_]

I don't get this. Have you seen him sprint up a climb? It's an explosive display of power & visual perfection. Really, it's one of the marvels of modern cycling (I could go on & on). Just ask Gino Mader (he called him an airplane in Paris-Nice). That & the low profile (feline, almost) position before jumping into action.

FYI I find MvdP also looks good on a bike (very powerful), but to put mention Roglic alongside the biggest eyesore in the history of the peloton (Froome), just no. I get personal preferences in terms of aesthetics matter, but Froome crossed a line into unchartered "argh what the hell am I watching!" territory.

Like I mentioned, those were just some random riders, that came to my mind at that moment, who don't fit into my personal image of an ideal bike rider's aesthetics. And obviously, I agree with you that no one comes close to Froome in terms of how bad you can look on the bike.

As for Roglic, imho they way he rides, his position on the bike etc don't look natural at all. He started cycling at the age of 22 so he'll never have an ideal, natural on-the-bike aesthetics. Of course, he's incredibely powerful and the way he rides is very effecient, but it doesn't automatically give him the aesthetic value. At the age that Promiz rode his first race, Mathieu was already a multiple CX and road WC, training and racing competitively on the bike since 10+ years. That's why his moves on the bike seem that super natural and pleasant to watch for a cycling fan.

Anyway, like you said, in the end it all comes to the personal preferences, but calling Roglic the marvel of cycling (considering the visual aspect of him as a cyclist, not his performance) is out of place, mainly due to his late coming into the sport. And don't try to change my mind.

 

[senna6541]

MvdP should take lessons of Carapaz:
Pretend you are almost finished and barely able to follow.

if MvdP would do that, and win monuments with a millimeter sprint in the end, and pretend he almost died doing that, both his target on his back will become smaller, and at the same time, he'll win more races.

Question is: do we want this, as fans of good racing?

I would rather see a supremely talented and mentally tough athlete like MVDP go absolutely all in and explore his own limits. He'll get his share of wins and and several of them will be spectacular. MVDP already has too many to mention across 3 disciplines. That meaningless stage at TA this year was classic - from freewheeling down that hill at 60mph jamming fuel in, to completely coming apart down the stretch - classic stuff. The best of the best aren't afraid to lose. Sugar Ray Leonard and Ali are known as much for their tough losses (Duran 1, Frazier 1) as they are for their wins.

 

[senna6541]

That, I agree. And it's partly due to Van Aert and Van der Poel tendency to always show how strong they are very early in the races. He can't ride like Colbrelli did and I'm not suggesting he should (unless particular circumstances occur).

There are other ways of racing though. First of all, use your damn teammates. I struggle to remember a big race where he used his team properly. In PR he should have kept the leading group closer. If you have a target on your back because everybody knows you are the best then act like you're the best and control the race. And when you bridge to Philipsen have him pull until he dies on the road.

Also, stop attacking at random moments. A couple of times in PR he attacked at the end of a cobble sector and kept going when he got out of it. Makes no sense, it's only a total waste of energy. I'm not saying he should change his nature, but choose your spots. Hide a bit and save some energy, then go all out when needed.

Thought the same thing with Philipsen, but my guess is that he (like everyone else) was completely on the limit and literally couldn't pull at all.

 

[tobydawq]

He became the fastest rider since Merckx to get top 10 placings in all five monuments since his first monument participation.

 

[DaLong]

He became the fastest rider since Merckx to get top 10 placings in all five monuments since his first monument participation.

I think the statistic was that he got top 10 placings in a shorter time-span (14 months iirc) than anyone other than Merckx who did it in a 13 month stretch. From his first monument participation it actually took longer, I think the clock starts at his Il Lombardia in 2020 rather than the first Ronde in 2019. Unless there was two statistics?

 

[tobydawq]

I think the statistic was that he got top 10 placings in a shorter time-span (14 months iirc) than anyone other than Merckx who did it in a 13 month stretch. From his first monument participation it actually took longer, I think the clock starts at his Il Lombardia in 2020 rather than the first Ronde in 2019. Unless there was two statistics?

I thought 29 months was the fastest since Mercks. But I honestly don't know if other riders have been faster.

 

[DaLong]

I thought 29 months was the fastest since Mercks. But I honestly don't know if other riders have been faster.

This says only Rolf Sorenson and Philippe Gilbert since 1990 have done it at all, regardless of time span. Pre-1990 I don't know though.

MVDP Article

 

[Rackham]

Like I mentioned, those were just some random riders, that came to my mind at that moment, who don't fit into my personal image of an ideal bike rider's aesthetics. And obviously, I agree with you that no one comes close to Froome in terms of how bad you can look on the bike.

As for Roglic, imho they way he rides, his position on the bike etc don't look natural at all. He started cycling at the age of 22 so he'll never have an ideal, natural on-the-bike aesthetics. Of course, he's incredibely powerful and the way he rides is very effecient, but it doesn't automatically give him the aesthetic value. At the age that Promiz rode his first race, Mathieu was already a multiple CX and road WC, training and racing competitively on the bike since 10+ years. That's why his moves on the bike seem that super natural and pleasant to watch for a cycling fan.

Anyway, like you said, in the end it all comes to the personal preferences, but calling Roglic the marvel of cycling (considering the visual aspect of him as a cyclist, not his performance) is out of place, mainly due to his late coming into the sport. And don't try to change my mind.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445762611778232329

View: https://twitter.com/Eurosport_UK/status/1445762611778232329

 

[SafeBet]

He became the fastest rider since Merckx to get top 10 placings in all five monuments since his first monument participation.

And he might have done it in a shorter time if Roubaix had been ridden in 2020 or in spring 2021.

 

[tobydawq]

And he might have done it in a shorter time if Roubaix had been ridden in 2020 or in spring 2021.

If it had been ridden, yes.

But without corona, I don't think he would have ridden Il Lombardia at all.

 

[tobydawq]

This says only Rolf Sorenson and Philippe Gilbert since 1990 have done it at all, regardless of time span. Pre-1990 I don't know though.

MVDP Article

Rolf Sørensen has at the least three top 10s in each monument since 1990.

And 25 in total. Incredible consistency.

 

[Bonimenier]

If it had been ridden, yes.

But without corona, I don't think he would have ridden Il Lombardia at all.

Probably wouldn't have ridden LBL either without the revised calender last year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

instead he rode LBL after Benelux Tour which is, considering he still finished 6th, pretty amazing that year

 

[Red Rick]

instead he rode LBL after Benelux Tour which is, considering he still finished 6th, pretty amazing that year

I forget, wasn't that the day after?

 

[Billie]

I forget, wasn't that the day after?

yes the day after the 50km solo in Geraardsbergen.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

As I have remarked on several occasions, the physiotherapist of Van der Poel has now confirmed that the back injury of Van der Poel was the result of overload from the combination of cyclocross, road racing and mountain bike. Without enough rest in between. While certain connoisseurs here have laughed this off, and even had negative comments about those, like me, who have mentioned this for a long time.

"Bombeke (= physiotherapist) added that van der Poel's back injury was brought on by years of racing road, cyclo-cross, and mountain biking without rest in between".

 

[stonerider]

As I have remarked on several occasions, the physiotherapist of Van der Poel has now confirmed that the back injury of Van der Poel was the result of overload from the combination of cyclocross, road racing and mountain bike. Without enough rest in between. While certain connoisseurs here have laughed this off, and even had negative comments about those, like me, who have mentioned this for a long time.

"Bombeke (= physiotherapist) added that van der Poel's back injury was brought on by years of racing road, cyclo-cross, and mountain biking without rest in between".

If so, that's too bad because I love seeing MvdP racing all the disciplines. I guess if something doesn't fit it would be MTB. Road and CX fit better together on the schedule. MTB and road racing doesn't mix well, unfortunately.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

If so, that's too bad because I love seeing MvdP racing all the disciplines. I guess if something doesn't fit it would be MTB. Road and CX fit better together on the schedule. MTB and road racing doesn't mix well, unfortunately.

I totally agree. CX (limited programm) and Road fit good. CX and MTB also. Provided that he does not constantly alternate between the two disciplines. But the way he combines the three disciplines is madness. Also because he constantly switches between CX and MTB during spring and summer. Without enough rest in between.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well his program will definitely be limited. Only start mid december

Also they plan a big road season this time around, including finishing the TDF. I wonder how the MTB plans fit into that.

 

[glassmoon]

I think MTB focus is mainly towards Paris 2024 OG... so I'd guess he'll do a limited XCO program this year. Not sure if he'll go for the XCO WCH in the end of August in Les Gets since RR WCH in Australia are only a month after the XCO ones... (most likely not)

 

[Axel Hangleck]

If he's still focusing on the Paris XCO race, then he'll need to race the MTB to get points; his ranking has dropped - and I'm guessing he'll be struggling to qualify for the XCC races on the Friday evening, which means starting miles back.