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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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I am surprised there is no recent discussion of MvDP with his recent run of success in cyclocross? He and WvA trading blows with poor Tom Pidcock trailing.

I am glad to see MvDP back in top form I hope it translates to the road in 2023.
He's clearly not where he used to be yet. He's now lost 3 out of 4 to Van Aert in one week. And two of those he basically imploded 80% into the race.
 
I want to see him on the MTB, and can he get back to the 2019 form, when he was the best XC rider that season; 5 XCC wins, 3 XCO World Cups, plus the European title.
Not sure he should start again unless he is 100% recovered from is back injuries, and only when he's been cleared, knowing his back issues won't come back by doing it. It also needlessly complicates both his CX and road campaigns.
 
Fortunately, MvdP appears to be perfectly on track for 2023. He‘s apparently already extremely strong.

I think his perfect season of 2022 pushed Wout to a completely new, higher level. Large extents, with big intensities, made this possible.

It‘s a very good sign that Mathieu seems to still be close to Wout, or equal. Mathieu‘s past year was a little bit more complicated, at times, so I‘m glad that also MvdP made this necessary step forward. It remains to be seen how Mathieu will manage the longer distances of the spring races, but I‘m optimistic. Apparently, he‘s been pain free for a while, and has an excellent preparation for 2023‘s road season.

WVA, MvdP and Pidcock now had and still have a winter program of quite many cyclocross races. The numbers of races have increased. They seem to rely of this kind of preparation, which suits them well.

So I think it‘s even more surprising that except of these three, and (not even) a handful of cross enthusiasts like Venturini, almost the complete male WT road peloton still ignores cross, and does not ride any cyclocross races. I did not expect this. In fact, after all the success of WVA, MvdP and Pidcock, I expected that more and more elite road pros would follow this example, and race cross as their winter preparation.

Apparently, I was wrong. Would be interesting to know why most avoid cyclocross races. Maybe fear of injuries?

I could imagine that racing cyclocross races as a preparation for the road season afterwards makes perfect sense when you are already a rider with excellent bike handling skills, like WVA, MvdP, Pidcock, Sagan or Pogacar. Then, you really benefit from these races, by gaining explosiveness and further improving technical skills. If you are, however, a mediocre bike handler, you lack self confidence on the cross parcours, tend to ride too carefully, and have no real benefit. Maybe that‘s the reason why so many still avoid cyclocross?…
 
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So I think it‘s even more surprising that except of these three, and (not even) a handful of cross enthusiasts like Venturini, almost the complete male WT road peloton still ignores cross, and does not ride any cyclocross races. I did not expect this. In fact, after all the success of WVA, MvdP and Pidcock, I expected that more and more elite road pros would follow this example, and race cross as their winter preparation.

Apparently, I was wrong. Would be interesting to know why most avoid cyclocross races. Maybe fear of injuries?

I could imagine that racing cyclocross races as a preparation for the road season afterwards makes perfect sense when you are already a rider with excellent bike handling skills, like WVA, MvdP, Pidcock, Sagan or Pogacar. Then, you really benefit from these races, by gaining explosiveness and further improving technical skills. If you are, however, a mediocre bike handler, you lack self confidence on the cross parcours, tend to ride too carefully, and have no real benefit. Maybe that‘s the reason why so many still avoid cyclocross?…

Cycling is a very demanding sport, not only physically but also mentally. Very few sports demand that the riders spend more than 60 to 80 days away from home, very often in foreign countries and continents, to do their sport (only counting race days, not counting training camps and travel days between races) and without the hability to do home races every two weekends like in team sports.

Mathieu and Wout were raised in cross, it's something that is natural to them and living in Belgium they can sleep in their home, drive two hours to the race and go back. I think it was last week that Mathieu did some practice near his home in Antwerp in the morning before going to race Diegem in the afternoon.

Take Pidcock for instance, someone who although was also raised in cross, needs to go live in another environment during the cross period. He arrived in August and needed to end the season early due to fatigue.

For the other pros, what else is to gain racing cross? They would need to change their training, reduce the very little rest period they have, combine the base training for the road season with race prep for the crosses, all to end up fighting for the top20 or 30 with dedicated cross riders who have much sharper race instinct and skills due to either being fully focused on it or by adquiring these skills during their formative years in the junior ranks. If they want to add short intensive efforts to their training, in this day and age, they could easily do it by themselves with structured training and the tools that are available for them, without the hassle of changing locations and without adding the extra risk of an injury that limits their ability on the road.
 
There are a few other road-focused pros dipping into CX. In today's race, in addition to Wout and Mathieu, you also had Tim Merlier, Quinten Hermans, Gianni and Florian Vermeersch, and Thymen Arensman. All of these are World Tour pros. In previous seasons Heinrich Haussler rode a fair number of races. Despite finishing well back in the pack most of the time, he viewed it as a good training (and good fun!)
 
There are a few other road-focused pros dipping into CX. In today's race, in addition to Wout and Mathieu, you also had Tim Merlier, Quinten Hermans, Gianni and Florian Vermeersch, and Thymen Arensman. All of these are World Tour pros. In previous seasons Heinrich Haussler rode a fair number of races. Despite finishing well back in the pack most of the time, he viewed it as a good training (and good fun!)

Well, Gianni Vermeersch, Merlier and Hermans were established cross riders before they became names on the road.
 
Cycling is a very demanding sport, not only physically but also mentally. Very few sports demand that the riders spend more than 60 to 80 days away from home, very often in foreign countries and continents, to do their sport (only counting race days, not counting training camps and travel days between races) and without the hability to do home races every two weekends like in team sports.

Mathieu and Wout were raised in cross, it's something that is natural to them and living in Belgium they can sleep in their home, drive two hours to the race and go back. I think it was last week that Mathieu did some practice near his home in Antwerp in the morning before going to race Diegem in the afternoon.

Take Pidcock for instance, someone who although was also raised in cross, needs to go live in another environment during the cross period. He arrived in August and needed to end the season early due to fatigue.

For the other pros, what else is to gain racing cross? They would need to change their training, reduce the very little rest period they have, combine the base training for the road season with race prep for the crosses, all to end up fighting for the top20 or 30 with dedicated cross riders who have much sharper race instinct and skills due to either being fully focused on it or by adquiring these skills during their formative years in the junior ranks. If they want to add short intensive efforts to their training, in this day and age, they could easily do it by themselves with structured training and the tools that are available for them, without the hassle of changing locations and without adding the extra risk of an injury that limits their ability on the road.
Perfectly put. You need to be really good at cross to have fun racing and for it not to become unduly stressful mentally during the off-season, when serenity is key. Road cyclists need to stay healthy and injury free to establish a solid base, upon which to build in prospect of the upcoming season. By contrast, the often cold and miserable conditions of the Low Countries during cross events, could needlessly lead to avoidable illness or injury among the uninitiated. So why bother for the vast majority of road pros (also as sponsorship investment is concerned), unversed as they are in cross craft, to risk an entire pre-season prep for minimal gains and much to lose? They could rather be getting in productive base miles under the warmer sun of Mediterranean Spain, with long climbs up from the coast to prepare for the actual types of races they will face during the season.
 
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There are a few other road-focused pros dipping into CX. In today's race, in addition to Wout and Mathieu, you also had Tim Merlier, Quinten Hermans, Gianni and Florian Vermeersch, and Thymen Arensman. All of these are World Tour pros. In previous seasons Heinrich Haussler rode a fair number of races. Despite finishing well back in the pack most of the time, he viewed it as a good training (and good fun!)

They're nearly all originally from CX, apart from Haussler who wishes he found out about it when he was younger.

I know the commentators often repeat the "CX is good prep for the road..." but if it really was, then you'd think more would do it. I do wonder how long Nys will stay doing CX, unless his father has got influence within Trek to keep doing it.
 
I do wonder how long Nys will stay doing CX, unless his father has got influence within Trek to keep doing it.
As long as he wants to. Mental health of a rider is also important and if he needs this to decompress after a road season while also having fun and training in a way, then why not? If you would push MVDP to only do road and no CX or mountainbike anymore, he would get depressed.
 
Cycling is a very demanding sport, not only physically but also mentally. Very few sports demand that the riders spend more than 60 to 80 days away from home, very often in foreign countries and continents, to do their sport (only counting race days, not counting training camps and travel days between races) and without the hability to do home races every two weekends like in team sports.

Mathieu and Wout were raised in cross, it's something that is natural to them and living in Belgium they can sleep in their home, drive two hours to the race and go back. I think it was last week that Mathieu did some practice near his home in Antwerp in the morning before going to race Diegem in the afternoon.

Take Pidcock for instance, someone who although was also raised in cross, needs to go live in another environment during the cross period. He arrived in August and needed to end the season early due to fatigue.

For the other pros, what else is to gain racing cross? They would need to change their training, reduce the very little rest period they have, combine the base training for the road season with race prep for the crosses, all to end up fighting for the top20 or 30 with dedicated cross riders who have much sharper race instinct and skills due to either being fully focused on it or by adquiring these skills during their formative years in the junior ranks. If they want to add short intensive efforts to their training, in this day and age, they could easily do it by themselves with structured training and the tools that are available for them, without the hassle of changing locations and without adding the extra risk of an injury that limits their ability on the road.
You are mistaking cause with effect. It's exactly the lack of interest in the sport that has made Belgium the only place cross still lives. I've told the story a hundred times in the CX forum, but before MTB became an olympic sport, CX was big in many places all over Europe. Italy, Suisse, Czechia, France... In the 8 years before MTB going Olympic, there were worldchamps coming from 7 different nations (I'm talking about men's elite). In the 26 years since, Pidcock last year made sure there have now been 4 different nationalities in 26 years.

Nobody is expecting Roglic to start doing CX next year and duking it out with MvdP and WvA. But having cross as a part of overall youth training, will only benefit not only the riders (fun winter training, bike handling, short effort interval training, etc) in the long run, but it would also benefit the sport itself. Some of those guys will stick around, not all of them will be able to make it on the road anyway. And you could have guys come back to CX after their road career has ended. Just like Mario De Clerq and Van der Poel senior. It's good for road racing, it's good for the riders, and it's good for CX. It's a win-win-win. But they have to start with youth riders who are young enough to learn the skills. Not with current pros.

Arensman is another road cyclist who comes out of cross. Zoe Bäckstedt has also combined the sports. We should hope for everybody's sake, that more youth trainers start to understand the importance of CX for their riders. Which will in turn benefit both road and CX. But you can't expect the current RR peleton to start doing CX all of a sudden.

As for extra injuries... i think you can crash 30 times in CX and not have the same injuries as you could potentially have from 1 crash on the road. That's a weaksauce argument. Crashing at 25km/h in the mud or sand, or crashing at 60km/h on concrete. You pick.
 
CX is just not as "fun" as VTT(MTB) if you want to add short, hard efforts. I tried CX a few times while I was racing amateur VTT back in the 90s. Much respect to CX racers -- it's not just that it's hard physically and technically, but the conditions are brutal. The running part was definitely the least fun bit.

I enjoy watching CX, especially the incredible skill of the top riders like Pieterse/Wout/MvdP, but I just can't see it growing outside of the Belgium unless it somehow merges with gravel. At least the bikes are more or less the same.

I do think it's excellent training, although I'd bet that Wout/MvdP/Hermans do it because it's what they've always done. I doubt they'd have worse road results if they followed a typical off-season training program, especially as noted with much more data-based training/recovery in the past decade.
 
That's another thing; hardly any of the top MTB-ers, especially the men bother anymore. The 1996 Olympic MTB race had Frischknecht, Pontoni, Bramati & Martinez in the top 10; all had seen success in CX.
Having looked at the current Top 10 rankings, not one male has ridden any CX, whereas Keller, Bohe & Neff have done local/national races; only PFP has ridden a World Cup. However, Evie is entered for Zonhoven, and has no CX ranking.
 
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That's another thing; hardly any of the top MTB-ers, especially the men bother anymore. The 1996 Olympic MTB race had Frischknecht, Pontoni, Bramati & Martinez in the top 10; all had seen success in CX.
Having looked at the current Top 10 rankings, not one male has ridden any CX, whereas Keller, Bohe & Neff have done local/national races; only PFP has ridden a World Cup. However, Evie is entered for Zonhoven, and has no CX ranking.
Those guys in the 90s came from CX, not the other way around. It was a one way direction with a ticket for the Olympics.

Which is why i'm confident CX could potentially grow again beyond BE/NL. It also complements RR much better. Both as training, as competitively. Bike, bikehandling, bike position... are much more similar. It can be done as wintertraining, or even competitively and still not get in the way of a RR season. With MTB this is a completely different matter, falling smack dab in the middle of RR season, let alone time to adjust.
 
Sure it can, they just have to make it an Olympic sport and all the focus that was artificially forced to MTB in the 90's can gradually shift back.

We've already been through this. Isn't one problem that CX would have to be a summer, not winter sport? It's not snow or ice based, although there have been obviously some CX races in snow. And it's only contested in winter...but it's dirt/sand based... That said I would love for it to be a summer Olympic sport.
 
We've already been through this. Isn't one problem that CX would have to be a summer, not winter sport? It's not snow or ice based, although there have been obviously some CX races in snow. And it's only contested in winter...but it's dirt/sand based... That said I would love for it to be a summer Olympic sport.
It's not snow based, but it is definitely a winter sport. We just have to wait for IOC to grow a brain. That would be like having an extra condition for summer sports that they have to be held at above 30 degrees C without any clouds or don't count.
 
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